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Author Topic:   Most convincing evidence for creation theory
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 301 of 307 (413052)
07-27-2007 1:17 PM


Summation
The argument from design is obviously the most convincing creationist argument - millions worldwide have been persuaded by this argument. Of course, almost none of them are scientists, and the argument from design hasn't yet been formulated into any testable scientific form, but that's not what this thread is asking.
Ironically, the most pure distillation of the argument from design, what we today call intelligent design or just ID, has not only been rejected by US courts, but even by mainstream creationists, because it gives insufficient consideration to Biblical inerrancy. Behe himself accepts an earth that is billions of years old where most of life's diversity developed through natural evolutionary processes, not a position that attracts many Biblical literalists. Most creationists who come here espouse either traditional YEC views or some combination of YEC and ID views. The pure IDist is a rather rare bird these days.
Scientific arguments make testable claims. Whether the world rides upon the back of a giant turtle is a testable claim. Whether there was a worldwide flood 4500 years is a testable claim. Religions that make testable claims about the real world will always conflict with science.
And that is perhaps why the argument from design is so effective and therefore also so insidious. It really makes no scientifically testable claims and so can't be shown wrong by any science.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-27-2007 2:06 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 303 by IamJoseph, posted 07-27-2007 2:34 PM Percy has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 302 of 307 (413059)
07-27-2007 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Percy
07-27-2007 1:17 PM


The Argument From Design
But surely the A. F. D. is falsified just by pointing to things like, yes, snowflakes again, or the Mandelbrot set, or to RNA species arising from abiotic chemicals, or to self-replicating computer programs arising out of random computer code. Where is the Designer?
N.B: There was, of course, an intelligence involved in the latter two cases, as is in the nature of any simulation or experiment --- but the RNA species / computer programs are not the product of design; even if we commit the mistake of thinking that the experimenters are part of the model, the scientists involved would then be in the position of a Deist God who makes the laws of nature and then lets nature make itself.
---
Ah, and now the thread's running out just as I have something other than bunkum to respond to. Such is life.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Percy, posted 07-27-2007 1:17 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by IamJoseph, posted 07-27-2007 2:39 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 303 of 307 (413063)
07-27-2007 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Percy
07-27-2007 1:17 PM


Re: Summation
quote:
The argument from design is obviously the most convincing creationist argument - millions worldwide have been persuaded by this argument.
Also, that the universe is finite, and this is a prime negation of many premises founded on an infinite universe. The finite factor places a fatal blow to the BBT & TOE premise, and the only way out was to assume an infinite universe. Which means the foundation of many premises are rested on Sci-Fi as opposed to science. It is encumbent all theories must work on the finite premise, or should be discarded.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Percy, posted 07-27-2007 1:17 PM Percy has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 304 of 307 (413064)
07-27-2007 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Dr Adequate
07-27-2007 2:06 PM


Re: The Argument From Design
quote:
but the RNA species / computer programs are not the product of design
Define design and non-design, stating the difference; then put it in the preamble, and examine your premise. IMHO, there is nothing without a design.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-27-2007 2:06 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 305 of 307 (413067)
07-27-2007 2:43 PM


I'm not ignoring the replies to me but...
...it's time for summaries. I gave my summary, I'm done.
--Percy

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 306 of 307 (413068)
07-27-2007 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by NosyNed
07-27-2007 12:08 AM


Re: The kind of design
quote:
The apparent design in nature is exactly the kind that we have shown evolutionary processes to produce.
There is no such thing as nature or evolution. These are placebos, better seen as designs and processors, used to define the unknown. This is also no infinity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by NosyNed, posted 07-27-2007 12:08 AM NosyNed has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 307 of 307 (413084)
07-27-2007 3:23 PM


Substantiating ID Creation Theory
My summary statement is thus:
Since the best and only argument for creation theory ultimately relates to ID, the more ID implicated needful factors you assemble for planet earth to exist as is observed, the more you substantiate the ID argument.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

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