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Author Topic:   For ToErs Eyes Only
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 91 of 110 (313734)
05-19-2006 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by mr_matrix
05-19-2006 9:06 PM


A cell?? -- who said
NO look! the "dunno" philosophy is not the absolute base of my faith. Im just showing you how a cell being formed by chance is as impossible as randomly throwing letters on a paper to form a beautiful poem by "Chance".
Well since no one suggests a cell formed by chance or was the form of first life there is no disagreement there.
I suggest you learn about these things before engaging mouth gears.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by mr_matrix, posted 05-19-2006 9:06 PM mr_matrix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 2:59 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 95 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:22 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Chronos
Member (Idle past 6309 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005


Message 92 of 110 (313744)
05-19-2006 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by mr_matrix
05-19-2006 9:06 PM


Re: Getting the topic right
Im just showing you how a cell being formed by chance is as impossible as randomly throwing letters on a paper to form a beautiful poem by "Chance".
Actually, you didn't show that at all.
Simply saying something doesn't make it true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by mr_matrix, posted 05-19-2006 9:06 PM mr_matrix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 2:50 PM Chronos has not replied

  
mr_matrix
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 110 (313909)
05-20-2006 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Chronos
05-19-2006 10:37 PM


Re: Getting the topic right
Well...expalin to me how can a cell be formed by chance since you "know" more than me as you think!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Chronos, posted 05-19-2006 10:37 PM Chronos has not replied

  
mr_matrix
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 110 (313912)
05-20-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by NosyNed
05-19-2006 10:10 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
Look! a cell being formed by chance is like the basic belief of an athiest evolutionist. If you say that no one suggested that a cell can be formed by chance than what is your belief about the emergance of the first cell? Are you willing to believe in chance?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by NosyNed, posted 05-19-2006 10:10 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Belfry, posted 05-20-2006 3:26 PM mr_matrix has replied

  
mr_matrix
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 110 (313921)
05-20-2006 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by NosyNed
05-19-2006 10:10 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
Each time I engage in a talk with evolutionists they start to talk about natural selection and speciation. But they fail to explain how it all started. Now, almost everyone realizes that believing in a cell emerging by chance is not in agreement with logic. Here I'd like to talk about abiogenesis. Posting essays about evolution of populations is not enough to prove evolution. Most important is to show how it all started. Otherwise evolution will fail to reach its sole purpose: The Denial of God!
By the way, just like how any machine needs an intellegent dsigner, so is the cell needs an even more intelligent designer.
Edited by mr_matrix, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by NosyNed, posted 05-19-2006 10:10 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Belfry
Member (Idle past 5169 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 96 of 110 (313924)
05-20-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 2:59 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr_matrix writes:
Look! a cell being formed by chance is like the basic belief of an athiest evolutionist.
No, it isn't. That's a straw man, I don't know where you got it from. Additionally, not all (likely not even most) evolutionists are atheists, if that's what you're saying.
mr_matrix writes:
If you say that no one suggested that a cell can be formed by chance than what is your belief about the emergance of the first cell?
We don't yet know how the first cell emerged. We probably never know for certain, although plausible theories using observable mechanisms have been proposed. It is likely that the first self-replicating "life" was far simpler than the simplest cells existing today. No matter, abiogenesis is a different topic than evolution (and that's why we have a separate Origin of Life forum here); regardless of how the first self-replicators emerged (or were created, for that matter), evolution is concerned with what happened (and continues to happen) after that.
I repeat, evolutionary theory does not rest on a foundation of abiogenesis.
Edited by Belfry, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 2:59 PM mr_matrix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:35 PM Belfry has replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5169 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 97 of 110 (313928)
05-20-2006 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 3:22 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr.matrix writes:
Otherwise evolution will fail to reach its sole purpose: The Denial of God!
Fortunately, evolutionary biology has no such purpose, so no worries.
You might be happier talking to the folks over at the Internet Infidels forum (which is specifically for and about atheists). However, even they will inform you that evolutionary biology is not about atheism, nor about abiogenesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:22 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
mr_matrix
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 110 (313931)
05-20-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Belfry
05-20-2006 3:26 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
Ok then no need for me to further post. As long as you have no clue about the origin of life than I dont care about populations' evolution (although we dont know for sure if it exists, other than natural selection).
AS long as evolutionist fail to explain how evolution can account for the begining (not evolution) of life, then athiests failed to deny God.
[It is likely that the first self-replicating "life" was far simpler than the simplest cells existing today.]---> Your saying maybe here, well maybe not, what if it was not simple. The layer of the first unicellular organisms clearly show their complexity that is just like modern day cells. YOur quote above is an example of how evolutionists create imaginary scenarios to satisfy their lack of evidence regarding the origin of life.
Edited by mr_matrix, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Belfry, posted 05-20-2006 3:26 PM Belfry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by CK, posted 05-20-2006 3:46 PM mr_matrix has not replied
 Message 100 by Belfry, posted 05-20-2006 4:02 PM mr_matrix has replied
 Message 101 by Chiroptera, posted 05-20-2006 4:06 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 99 of 110 (313934)
05-20-2006 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 3:35 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
quote:
Ok then no need for me to further post
But you did learnt that Einstein did not believe in a personal god and thus it wasn't a total waste of your time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:35 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5169 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 100 of 110 (313936)
05-20-2006 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 3:35 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr.matrix writes:
I dont care about populations' evolution (although we dont know for sure if it exists, other than natural selection).
Yes, we do. We have many observed instances of speciation, and mutation with natural selection is commonly observed in existing populations.
mr.matrix writes:
AS long as evolutionist fail to explain how evolution can account for the begining (not evolution) of life, then athiests failed to deny God.
Abiogenesis has little to no bearing on whether or not atheists deny the existence of gods.
mr.matrix writes:
[It is likely that the first self-replicating "life" was far simpler than the simplest cells existing today.]---> Your saying maybe here, well maybe not, what if it was not simple. The layer of the first unicellular organisms clearly show their complexity that is just like modern day cells. YOur quote above is an example of how evolutionists create imaginary scenarios to satisfy their lack of evidence regarding the origin of life.
The "imaginary scenario" is called a hypothesis. Scientists are not disturbed by the fact that we don't know everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:35 PM mr_matrix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 4:07 PM Belfry has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 110 (313940)
05-20-2006 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 3:35 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
quote:
...then athiests failed to deny God.
If you sincerely believe in God, then why do you care whether atheists "deny God" (whatever that means)?

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:35 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
mr_matrix
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 110 (313942)
05-20-2006 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Belfry
05-20-2006 4:02 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
Hypothesis are accepted, but as long as your hypothesy is not proven, then you have to take into account the opposite hypothesies.
By the way, their is enough evidence against your so called hypothesis. The sediment layers tell us that the first unicellular life forms were no different from todays cells and bacteria in complexity.
AS I said, I dont have to worry myself since athiests are unable to fully deny or disprove the existance of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Belfry, posted 05-20-2006 4:02 PM Belfry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 05-20-2006 4:09 PM mr_matrix has not replied
 Message 109 by Belfry, posted 05-20-2006 5:20 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 110 (313944)
05-20-2006 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 4:07 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
quote:
AS I said, I dont have to worry myself since athiests are unable to fully deny or disprove the existance of God.
Actually, it is usually the theistically minded that seem so concerned to prove to the atheists that God exists. Most of the atheists I know simply point out that the "proofs" for God's alleged existence are unconvincing and mostly want to be left alone.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 4:07 PM mr_matrix has not replied

Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 104 of 110 (313945)
05-20-2006 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Chiroptera
05-20-2006 4:09 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
and there are 1000s of Gods who'd got the time to investigate and "disprove" them all!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 05-20-2006 4:09 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by iano, posted 05-20-2006 4:21 PM CK has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2024 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 105 of 110 (313947)
05-20-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by CK
05-20-2006 4:11 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
and there are 1000s of Gods who'd got the time to investigate and "disprove" them all! and there are 1000s of Gods who'd got the time to investigate and "disprove" them all!
How would one go about attempting to 'disprove' even one God? Where would one begin disproving the FSM? What criteria would one use in order to disprove God?
Logically (cu*), I imagine you are reliant on God proving himself to you. And that you have all the time in the world for him to do so
* cu: common usage (of the word)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by CK, posted 05-20-2006 4:11 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by CK, posted 05-20-2006 4:23 PM iano has replied

  
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