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Author Topic:   For ToErs Eyes Only
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5115 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 96 of 110 (313924)
05-20-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 2:59 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr_matrix writes:
Look! a cell being formed by chance is like the basic belief of an athiest evolutionist.
No, it isn't. That's a straw man, I don't know where you got it from. Additionally, not all (likely not even most) evolutionists are atheists, if that's what you're saying.
mr_matrix writes:
If you say that no one suggested that a cell can be formed by chance than what is your belief about the emergance of the first cell?
We don't yet know how the first cell emerged. We probably never know for certain, although plausible theories using observable mechanisms have been proposed. It is likely that the first self-replicating "life" was far simpler than the simplest cells existing today. No matter, abiogenesis is a different topic than evolution (and that's why we have a separate Origin of Life forum here); regardless of how the first self-replicators emerged (or were created, for that matter), evolution is concerned with what happened (and continues to happen) after that.
I repeat, evolutionary theory does not rest on a foundation of abiogenesis.
Edited by Belfry, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 2:59 PM mr_matrix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:35 PM Belfry has replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5115 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 97 of 110 (313928)
05-20-2006 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 3:22 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr.matrix writes:
Otherwise evolution will fail to reach its sole purpose: The Denial of God!
Fortunately, evolutionary biology has no such purpose, so no worries.
You might be happier talking to the folks over at the Internet Infidels forum (which is specifically for and about atheists). However, even they will inform you that evolutionary biology is not about atheism, nor about abiogenesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:22 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5115 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 100 of 110 (313936)
05-20-2006 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 3:35 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr.matrix writes:
I dont care about populations' evolution (although we dont know for sure if it exists, other than natural selection).
Yes, we do. We have many observed instances of speciation, and mutation with natural selection is commonly observed in existing populations.
mr.matrix writes:
AS long as evolutionist fail to explain how evolution can account for the begining (not evolution) of life, then athiests failed to deny God.
Abiogenesis has little to no bearing on whether or not atheists deny the existence of gods.
mr.matrix writes:
[It is likely that the first self-replicating "life" was far simpler than the simplest cells existing today.]---> Your saying maybe here, well maybe not, what if it was not simple. The layer of the first unicellular organisms clearly show their complexity that is just like modern day cells. YOur quote above is an example of how evolutionists create imaginary scenarios to satisfy their lack of evidence regarding the origin of life.
The "imaginary scenario" is called a hypothesis. Scientists are not disturbed by the fact that we don't know everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 3:35 PM mr_matrix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 4:07 PM Belfry has replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5115 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 109 of 110 (313963)
05-20-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by mr_matrix
05-20-2006 4:07 PM


Re: A cell?? -- who said
mr.matrix writes:
Hypothesis are accepted, but as long as your hypothesy is not proven, then you have to take into account the opposite hypothesies.
No, hypotheses are tested, not accepted. And they can never be "proven" in science - just supported or refuted by the evidence. I'm not sure what you mean by the "opposite hypothes{es}."
mr.matrix writes:
By the way, their is enough evidence against your so called hypothesis. The sediment layers tell us that the first unicellular life forms were no different from todays cells and bacteria in complexity.
The sediment layers contain early fossils similar to modern unicellular organisms. That is neither evidence for nor against a simpler antecedent. We don't know that those fossils represent the first life forms.
mr.matrix writes:
AS I said, I dont have to worry myself since athiests are unable to fully deny or disprove the existance of God.
They are certainly able to fully deny it - an atheist is, by definition, someone who does so. They can't disprove the existence of gods any more than you can prove the existence of your particular god. It falls outside of what is testable or disprovable - and therefore, outside of the realm of science.
BUT that is, like abiogenesis, off-topic. This forum takes topics seriously, and we can expect to be censured by the administrators shortly, if we continue along these lines despite your self-proclaimed lack of interest.
Edited by Belfry, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by mr_matrix, posted 05-20-2006 4:07 PM mr_matrix has not replied

  
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