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Author Topic:   Do animals have souls?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1575 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 91 of 303 (306366)
04-24-2006 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by 1.61803
04-24-2006 9:51 PM


Re: About hydrozoa and scyphozoa...
I know so many people who think that essences do differentiate matter.
It's basically Plato's Idealism, the idea that all objects represent degenerate forms of a perfect ideal; chairs are chairs because every chair is a degenerate form of the perfect chair.
Of course, that raises the question - if I cut down a tree use the wood to make a chair, at which point does the wood stop being an increasingly degenerate tree and become a decreasingly degenerate chair?

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Replies to this message:
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kalimero
Member (Idle past 2552 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 92 of 303 (306397)
04-25-2006 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by 1.61803
04-24-2006 9:11 PM


Re: Wolves and Trees
Heh, I think that humans have reached the limits of what can be measured.
I wouldnt be so sure - alot of new sciences are being developed, I suspect we will be able to measure more things in the future.
And when one goes down to the nitty gritty of what makes up our reality we leave the realm of material and enter the realm of flying pigs. lol
Elevated pork are also material subctances. The main thing to remember here is that we dont if there are immaterial things, about immaterial things (if you suggest they exist) and any way to test those things. Therefore, immateriality is a hypothesis without merit.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 93 of 303 (306439)
04-25-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by 1.61803
04-24-2006 9:11 PM


Re: Wolves and Trees
You know.. just as someone says 'we have reached the limits', some new technique, or some new invention comes along and totally changes that.
I , for one, would never make that kind of prediction.
One the other hand, I don't suspect we will ever find the 'immateral', spirit, soul. I don't think they will ever be detected.
The problem with the unobservable and the undetectable is it bears a sriking resemblance to the non-existant.

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1612 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 94 of 303 (306491)
04-25-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by ramoss
04-25-2006 8:26 AM


Re: Wolves and Trees
When I said science has reached it's limit on what can be measured I am speaking of the phenomenon of not being able to observe or measure a quantum event without affecting the data by making the measurement. It is not possible to take ourselves out of the equation.
And although humans are quite clever apes we still do not know what lurks within the depths of our own seas, let alone beyond our own galaxy. Abiogenisis still confounds us, cold fusion, quantum gravity, Pre Plankian time, conciousness. VCR recording directions..... So asking questions like do animals have a soul can just be added to the list.

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5098 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 95 of 303 (306626)
04-26-2006 3:10 AM


This is an interesting question as it separates pan-spiritualists from anthropocentrists.
Though I have a materialist outlook, I have more sympathy with the pan-spiritualist who sees a "spirit" in all life, than the anthropocentrist. I dislike the idea that humanity has some kind of existential ascendancy of over every other form of life, even though it's an assumption we all make (myself included) at one point or another.
In my humble opinion we ALL return to the earth!
This message has been edited by RickJB, 04-26-2006 03:13 AM

2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5959 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 96 of 303 (307237)
04-28-2006 1:02 AM


Whatever happened to the original topic?

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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 97 of 303 (307700)
04-29-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by 2ice_baked_taters
04-28-2006 1:02 AM


It went somwhere a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away LOL.
I was involved in this topic for a while, but I had to get out. I love animals very much and if I get into a heated debate with a bunch of people on the opposite fence it might get a little to heated. One on one would be okay, but not a free-for-all involving thirty people. Plus i'm in a verbal slug-fest with Ringo on another topic. I might stop that one and try to start a one-on-one about this topic (I tried about the Nephilim. No takers yet .
It is interesting to see people of different faith and people of no faith discuss this topic though.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 303 (311329)
05-12-2006 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
10-15-2003 5:02 PM


I'd say yes, by and large, most do. And, as they say, love is the universal language.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 99 of 303 (311399)
05-12-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by simple
05-12-2006 3:49 AM


Welcome to EvC
Glad you decided to add to our diversity. We have a wide variety of forums for your debating pleasure, but I warn you it can become habit forming.
In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant.
Pay particular attention to our Forum Guidelines and all will go well.
Again welcome and happy debating.

Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate


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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 303 (311475)
05-12-2006 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by AdminPD
05-12-2006 11:39 AM


Re: Welcome to EvC
Are you really a witch?

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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 303 (311552)
05-12-2006 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by simple
05-12-2006 4:17 PM


Re: Welcome to EvC
She's really a cat, too!

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by simple, posted 05-12-2006 4:17 PM simple has replied

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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 102 of 303 (311558)
05-12-2006 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by simple
05-12-2006 4:17 PM


Re: Welcome to EvC
No, but I do have the power to render off-topic posts invisible with a twitch of my whiskers.
Again, welcome and please continue with the topic of this thread.
Carry on Magic Wand

This message is a reply to:
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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 303 (311572)
05-12-2006 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Chiroptera
05-12-2006 7:02 PM


Re: Welcome to EvC
-Whisper quietly responds to admin threat/welcome.
quote:
She's really a cat, too!
One with a soul? -Just to stay on topic here.

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Christian7
Member (Idle past 356 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 104 of 303 (312580)
05-16-2006 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
10-15-2003 5:02 PM


I don't know that whether animals have souls or not. They might be conscious and thus might have something simalar to souls. The bible does mention animals in heaven so they just might have something. Now, understand that even if animals didn't have them, they could still simulate feeling like compassion and such, even if they don't actually experience them. So they would be like robots. Understand that everything they do is based on extinct. I am not sure if animals can chose I just don't know. Personally I would like to believe animals are conscious like us but if it is not consistent with scripture then I can't believe it.

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Christian7
Member (Idle past 356 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 105 of 303 (312582)
05-16-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by crashfrog
04-24-2006 10:50 PM


Re: About hydrozoa and scyphozoa...
quote:
Of course, that raises the question - if I cut down a tree use the wood to make a chair, at which point does the wood stop being an increasingly degenerate tree and become a decreasingly degenerate chair?
Hmm, thats very interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 04-24-2006 10:50 PM crashfrog has not replied

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