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Author Topic:   Do animals have souls?
Member (Idle past 4218 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005

Message 117 of 303 (321017)
06-13-2006 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by 2ice_baked_taters
06-12-2006 12:36 PM

This link is full of nothing but a point of view that I do not share.
what kind of answer is that? so just because you disagree with it you have the right to handwave it? how disingenious of you. you said theres no way of testing self-awareness and he showed you a test!
Why of course. I am asserting my opinion as you are.
You simply do not share mine.
this is a science forum where you at least make the effort of backing up what you say, so what do you have to back up what you say?
It is you you has limited yor perspective to a belief in a doctrine that is tentative at best. That is your choice.
umm all science is tentative, the science behind the very comeputer you are using is tentative, how is being not 100% relevent when its right 99% of the time? i guess walking across that bridge would be impossible since you might have that 1% that the bridge fails on you?
Concerning the nature of what we are discussing science has no answers. Anything you have thus cited as evidence is based soley upon opinion.
no we are having a debate where we try to show evidence for our argument for why our stance is logical and factual.
the thing is thier is no evidence so far of anything pertaining to the soul as part of life
Firstly this completely depends upon your definition of living. Mechanically or spiritualy
Secondly we hear people from time to time state that life is just not worth living based upon a spiritual or completely non scientific point of view. This will often lead one to leave life prematurely by choice.
ok you have no idea what you are talking about as far as depression, since we can pinpoint where depression begins and what causes it,whether full on abuse mental disorder or chemical imbalance in the brain - all of them are testible or at least treatible with some scientific-based drug or therepy.
it has nothing to do with the spiritual - i thought we left that idea back in the dark ages with crops and sheep being cursed by witchs and demons causing the black plague
name a person who has with evidence killed themselves over a spirtual problem that didn't have some sort of mental disorder
But you do have faith. You are citing definitions faithfully. You are placing your belief in them or you would not choose to cite them
ok now you are just spliting hairs, you can't have faith in words, i'm sorry is this suposed to be some sort of argument? this to me looks like you are grasping at straws and its hardly convincing
The "purpose" of a conversation is not limited to your point of view.
then why are you posting to a bloody debate site! for gods sake man read what you are posting! you are making no sense at all! if you don't want people to argue with you over things like this go start a bloody blog or go outside and find another hobby
As I have stated several times this is simply a philosophical difference of opinion. The term soul describes that which science cannot define. Scientifically you must deny your existance. I not only accept my existance but embrace it with meaning. Your perspective does not allow for meaning. In my perspective it is good reason to assume I am not unique. It is that simple.
why would he have to deny his own existance? you havn't really come up with a good argument why a person who doesn't believe in a soul can't believe they exist
no meaning is what you give your life, you are equating two things a meaning and a meaning outside of the self by an external supernaturual being. they are two entirely different things, one we can at least find evidence for (personal meaning) the other (sexpected supernatural meaning) we can not
It is that simple.
no you are making it simplistic, and limiting it to one option when there are millions more
Ocham's rasor is a philosophical piont of view. I do not need to rely upon citing other peoples thinking to argue my philosophical point of view and the original question is philosophical by nature. Science has nothing to add.
science can answer, since it is also a philosophy, hell all science is philosophy
but anyway, the problem i see is i have yet to see what is defined as a soul, much less how you know its there!, can you answer me that? how do you know if something has a soul if you can't observe it?
science answers that by saying something that can't be observed somehow most likely isn't there

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 06-12-2006 12:36 PM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 06-13-2006 5:56 PM ReverendDG has replied

Member (Idle past 4218 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005

Message 124 of 303 (321411)
06-14-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by 2ice_baked_taters
06-13-2006 5:56 PM

What he showed me was someones idea of what a test for self-awareness is. Yes I have waved it. To assume this is definitive is silly.
what the hell does that even mean? how is it silly to give an example of a test, you asked for? you have no basis for rejecting this other than "i don't like it" thats whats silly
His effort to back himself up was to give me someone elses opinion.
There is no hard data to back a question of this nature up. It is all opinion.
that animals have self-awareness? or what? you arn't making any effort at all to answer anything
You are a rather passionate individual. I cannot observe your mind.
no that is frustration over your non-answers
You said it...I didn't. We cannot observe anything abstract for that matter. Yet all that we do comes from a place or thing we cannot observe. Funny to me how many readily accept a definition such as force is and reject the same basic concept when observing a very similar though more complicated phenomenon.
i hear words but they seem more like buzzing than anything. i said souls are not real since there is no evidence for them, people seem to have different meanings for a soul, so we can;t even define it.
the brain is where everything stems from we know this from evidence.
do you even know how we detect forces? or are you using it in the scientific way or your made up definition of you being a "force"?
forces are detectible from the affects of forces, such as gravity pulling things to the center of say a planet, i'm starting to wonder if you deny forces even though we know they exist pretty easyly
all i have to say is man, you need to get off the acid you're almost as bad as brad

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 06-13-2006 5:56 PM 2ice_baked_taters has not replied

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