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Author Topic:   Do animals have souls?
Member (Idle past 1507 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004

Message 180 of 303 (326034)
06-25-2006 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by kalimero
06-25-2006 2:52 AM

I am experiencing genes.
You cant experience genes (unless under a microscope) - you can experience their expressions, which are not nesseserily influenced completely by the genes. What you experience is a combination of many different influences.
What is the fundamental difference between seeing genes under a microscope and "experiencing their expressions"? In either one, the "experience" of genes is mediated by levels and levels of other interactions--in the seeing case, it is the interaction of the genes with light, the interaction fo the light with glass, the interaction of the light with the lens in your eye and the interaction of that light with the photoreceptive cells in your retina. Which interact with the ganglion cells in your eye, which interact with the LGN in your midbrain (did I miss a step there?), which interact with multiple subsystem, etc, etc.
For those who believe in materialism, I think the type of argument you present is bogus. I think you're going to have a hard time making distinctions like "I" and "experiencing" in the way you're trying to do. Those are dualist concepts as far as I can see, and only work in that paradigm.
I see no reason for the concept of "I" or "self" to explain genes.
It doesnt have to. Though I see no reason why genes cant explain "self".
I see a reason why: genes are too low-level to adequately explain "self", just like quantum electrodynamics is too low-level to adequately explain the motion of grasses when a wind blows through a plain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by kalimero, posted 06-25-2006 2:52 AM kalimero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by kalimero, posted 06-25-2006 1:55 PM Ben! has not replied

Member (Idle past 1507 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004

Message 283 of 303 (338404)
08-07-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by kalimero
08-05-2006 3:05 PM

So being a little illogical is o.k.? Oh, why didnt you grade my physics test? I would have gotten a higher score for sure.
What makes you think that something MUST be logical? Humans aren't logical in their everyday lives, so ... why would you expect anything to be logical?
Science is an attempt to overcome our illogical nature, our illogical bodies that produce illogical minds. Most "logic" people use is simply trying to avoid cognitive dissonance. Some people's arguments actually turn out to be logical, usually due to great practice. Many arguments turn out to be illogical or based on false premises.
Life is nothing like a physics test. Except maybe that when you get to the end of either one you wind up feeling crappy
With that said,
Why do you think that? Why is religion excluded from logical scrutiny?
What is the purpose of putting religion under logical scrutiny? Even if illogical, religion does serve many purposes. There's at least one open thread if you want to discuss the purpose of religion. Regardless, all religion has to do is avoid causing cognitive dissonace in it's memebers. For believers, it doesn't have to be logical.
I think religious and non-religious people alike make the mistake of not understanding what we really are. Both tend to be idealists in my experience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by kalimero, posted 08-05-2006 3:05 PM kalimero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by kalimero, posted 08-07-2006 6:52 PM Ben! has not replied
 Message 286 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-08-2006 11:58 AM Ben! has not replied

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