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Author Topic:   Do animals have souls?
ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 52 of 303 (301007)
04-04-2006 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by LudoRephaim
04-04-2006 6:14 PM


Well, what kind of evidence do you have that any 'essense' livs on past death, even of humans?

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 Message 47 by LudoRephaim, posted 04-04-2006 6:14 PM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 55 of 303 (301064)
04-05-2006 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by LudoRephaim
04-05-2006 9:21 AM


This IS the science forum.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 93 of 303 (306439)
04-25-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by 1.61803
04-24-2006 9:11 PM


Re: Wolves and Trees
You know.. just as someone says 'we have reached the limits', some new technique, or some new invention comes along and totally changes that.
I , for one, would never make that kind of prediction.
One the other hand, I don't suspect we will ever find the 'immateral', spirit, soul. I don't think they will ever be detected.
The problem with the unobservable and the undetectable is it bears a sriking resemblance to the non-existant.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 171 of 303 (325304)
06-23-2006 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by deerbreh
06-23-2006 10:08 AM


Re: rape?
So is dolphin rape. A pair of males sometimes will corral a young female and cut her off from all other males for when she comes into estress.
Similar behavior can be found in some chimp tribes.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 178 of 303 (325705)
06-24-2006 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by 2ice_baked_taters
06-24-2006 1:35 PM


I am experiencing genes. I see no reason for the concept of "I" or "self" to explain genes.
I am a soul having an encounter with kalimero gene
Of course, that all depends on what a 'soul' is.
I would say that 'YOU' are a bunch of neurons that form the shape of an analog computer that is having an encounter with another analog computer that has the designation of "Kalimero".
Edited by AdminPD, : Fix quote box

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 185 of 303 (326410)
06-26-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by 2ice_baked_taters
06-26-2006 3:38 AM


Since "self" has no explanation and no physical proof we might as well say that genes explain fairies, gnomes, elves and a host of other non physical things.
Please explain this. As far as I can see that "SELF" is a pattern or recognition from an analog computer, and the physical proof is the behavior patterns of the person/animal.
Genes allow for the formation of the specific parts of the brain. The specific parts of the brain that deal with self recognition (The "I"
that we associated with humans) is in the right hemisphere, in the frontal lobes (at least when it comes to recognizing your own face).

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 186 of 303 (326412)
06-26-2006 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by 2ice_baked_taters
06-26-2006 3:45 AM


You might htink you are a soul. Are you> What is a 'SOUL'. What is the physical properties of a 'SOUL'.
Or, are you just patterns of behavior that dissolve after the chemical reactions break down?
I don't see any evidence that anything of 'self' remains after the chemical reactions we call 'life' cease.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 194 of 303 (329495)
07-06-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by 2ice_baked_taters
07-06-2006 8:28 PM


Yet, you claim YOU are a soul.
What is a soul. Does it exist after 'life'??

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 200 of 303 (329811)
07-08-2006 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by 2ice_baked_taters
07-08-2006 4:28 AM


The who is the neurological response from the neurons that acts as the analog computer. The 'who' is an emergant property of the action of the neurons of the brain, much like walking is an emergent property of
someone moving their legs in the proper manner.
We can demonstrate this by altering a brain, and making a different 'WHO', by showing a personality/memory change. This has happened to people via accidents. Phineas Gage is an example of this. He was a normal railroade engineer, but an accident drove a metal rod through a certain section of his brain. He , suprisingly enough, lived.
However, he had a strong personality change. He suddenly became a mean son of a gun. Here is a web site dedicated to the analsysi of the situation. http://www.deakin.edu.au/hbs/psychology/gagepage/.
Now, can you give a better definition of a 'soul', and show objective evidence that it exists? Or, is it something that we have to accept just because theists say so?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 208 of 303 (330047)
07-09-2006 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by 2ice_baked_taters
07-08-2006 10:33 AM


You are making the asserion.. "A property is not a who'.
PLease provide evidence for this.
I have shown evidence that 'who', (Our mind).. is a property of the neurons. Your just dismissing it does not disprove my conclusion based on the evidence of the study of the brain.
Do something more that 'no,, you are not right'. Show some evidence.
And you are also using the logical fallacy of 'equivication' . The perm 'property' isn't just ownership. Property can also mean characteristic.
So, your arguement is void.. filled with logical fallacies and assersions.
Where is your evidence?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 212 of 303 (330624)
07-10-2006 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by 2ice_baked_taters
07-10-2006 7:32 PM


I happen to disagree. You have not yet responded to the evidence about how the brain effects personality and memories.. which is the 'who' of someone.
I gave testable and repeatable experiments. I asked for the evidence you ahve for your view, yet, I was ignored.
Do you have any evidence for your point of view?

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 Message 211 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 07-10-2006 7:32 PM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 216 of 303 (330800)
07-11-2006 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by 2ice_baked_taters
07-11-2006 10:27 AM


I realise you wish to deny the evidence that is there.
However, I gave it to you. The evidence is the brain, people with brain damage of some kind, and how chemicals which change the brain chemistry can change the 'personality' and perception of 'self'.
This allows for repeatable experiments, and the can make predictions about what will happen if someone has brain damage in specific parts of the brain.. and how the 'who' is altered.
Can you give me any reason to 'reject' that as evidence?

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 Message 214 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 07-11-2006 10:27 AM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 07-11-2006 2:30 PM ramoss has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 220 of 303 (330865)
07-11-2006 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by 2ice_baked_taters
07-11-2006 2:30 PM


Sigh.
You do like being slippery, don't you. Why the avoidance?
Evidence that the brain is the center of 'who' someone is.. and that the physcial properties of the brain effect the 'Who'. Changing the brain via damage, or chemicals changes the 'who'.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 225 of 303 (330939)
07-11-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by New Cat's Eye
07-11-2006 6:09 PM


Well, "subjective" evidence can not be shown to someone else.
I mean, I am sure you are having 'feelngs' that you attribute to having a 'soul'. But, you can't demonstrate that this 'soul' has the attributes that many people attribute to it. .. that it is 'eternal' , that it exists seperate from the body, and that it 'goes to heaven/hell/another life' when your body dies.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 228 of 303 (331118)
07-12-2006 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by New Cat's Eye
07-12-2006 9:45 AM


You could know you aren't fooling yourself by trusting your own judgment. If you don't think you have a soul then fine that's cool, but I wouldn't hold that belief because science has failed to discover it. How do you know your not being fooled?
The way he knows he is not being fooled is that he is not relying strictly on his 'subjective senses', but rather on evidence that can be presented and examined by other people.
How do you know you're not being fooled?

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Replies to this message:
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