Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 51 (9225 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Malinda Millings
Post Volume: Total: 921,102 Year: 1,424/6,935 Month: 187/518 Week: 27/90 Day: 1/10 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 556 of 575 (922444)
03-09-2025 10:24 PM


Trump Says the “R” Word
Just trying to keep up with the news. Trump said that it is possible that tariffs could cause a recession. Anyone from the Trump side have a reaction?
—Percy

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9662
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 557 of 575 (922457)
03-11-2025 1:15 PM


Another Trump dump today. Every time the orange baby says "Tariffs" down it goes again. Apparently he's looking at the long term which for him is probably next Wednesday.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1489
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.3


(3)
Message 558 of 575 (922459)
03-11-2025 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 533 by Phat
02-25-2025 9:01 PM


"deluded mind and a weak grasp of facts" . . .
Phat writes:
I also observe and acknowledge the lies and fabrications of mortal humankind.
Yes, we know, we know, . . . you observe and acknowledge . . . and repeatedly embrace those lies and fabrications.
__
The 5 states in America MOST dependent on federal funding and the states that will be hurt most by drastic cuts — and the 5 LEAST dependent:
Most dependent: Alaska
2nd most dependent: Kentucky
3rd most dependent: West Virginia
4th most dependent: Mississippi
5th most dependent: South Carolina
least dependent: New Jersey
2nd California
3rd least dependent: Delaware
4th least dependent: Massachusetts
5th least dependent: Utah
Golly wiz Professor Phat, what do you observe and acknowledge is the common denominator?
The 5 states in America most dependent on federal funding — and the 5 least dependent
___
Citizens of Red states are poorer, less educated, and sicker than the citizens of Blue states. “Red” states, nearly across the board, have higher rates of:
• Spousal abuse
• ObesityS
• Smoking
• Teen pregnancy
• Sexually transmitted diseases
• Abortion (at least before Dobbs; now it would be “forced births”)
• Bankruptcies and poverty
• Homicide and suicide
• Infant mortality
• Maternal mortality
• Forcible rape
• Robbery and aggravated assault
• Dropouts from high school
• Divorce
• Contaminated air and water
• Opiate addiction and deaths
• Unskilled workers
• Parasitic infections
• Income and wealth inequality
• Covid deaths and unvaccinated people
• Federal subsidies to states (“Red State Welfare”)
• People on welfare
• Child poverty
• Homelessness
• Spousal murder
• Unemployment
• Deaths from auto accidents
• People living on disability
• Gun deaths
Why Are Citizens of Red States Poorer, Less Educated and Sicker? - Factkeepers.com
__
Citizens of red states have a 'special talent' (military-grade stupidity) for voting fanatically against their children's best interest. But at the end of the day, as long as they can look down on persons of color or women or non-christians, keep their white privilege, embrace their hateful aggrievement, it is all worth while to them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by Phat, posted 02-25-2025 9:01 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 559 of 575 (922465)
03-12-2025 9:58 AM


Is there maybe hope?
It seems like 90% of front page articles are about Trump these days. As has become the norm, he's sucking all the air out of the room and pushing much of the other notable news onto the back pages.
But in reading all these articles I thought I saw maybe a glimmer of hope. While Trump is stubborn about many things (e.g., the conspiracy theory that the 2020 election was stolen from him), he will turn on a dime on many others. We witness this all the time with Trump, most recently with the on-again/off-again/modify-again tariffs, and it is in this that I find hope.
The tariff flip flops and the continued chaotic layoffs and threats to Medicare and Social Security are sending the country into an uproar and potential tailspin. Trump says a recession is possible. The stock market is diving.
But Trump usually places great importance on economic indicators. I used the word "usually" because some indications are that he may be ignoring them right now, as reflected in his comment about a possible recession, but his long term history is to place great importance on them. He loves to be adored for how well the economy is doing.
For that reason I think Trump will flip-flop, he'll declare victory, and the tariff threat will diminish and recede into the background.
That still leaves the wholesale firing of government employees and the dismantling, hamstringing or kneecapping of essential government agencies. Musk paid a quarter billion dollars for the privilege of taking charge of downsizing government, and we have to remember Musk's philosophy on how to get things done quickly: "Move fast and break things."
But there's a problem with that approach. When Tesla and Space-X were startups, this was an approach that worked, but it seems highly inadvisable for an established government where the lives of people across the whole country can be affected. What if older people can't get health care through Medicare because doctors won't treat them because the Medicare payment system has broken down? What if they stop receiving their Social Security checks? What if SNAP (formerly food stamps) breaks? What if there is an airplane crash that causes significant cutbacks in airline flights due to concerns about safety? We must keep asking these kinds of questions that are focused on potential threats that we face with current Trump policies.
I hope that Trump eventually sees Musk's actions as a threat to the economy and starts reining him in.
As far as geopolitics, it looks like we'll have to take a wait and see approach. Zelenskyy was adamant at the Oval Office meeting that Ukraine needed guarantees before negotiating with Russia, whether it was for peace or just a cease fire. He's had to knuckle under, and the current path today (it could change at any moment given Trump proclivities) is toward a negotiated cease fire between Ukraine and Russia.
Trump claims that Putin wouldn't dare violate such a cease fire agreement because he and Putin have a good working relationship, and because Trump is a strong president (unlike Biden) such that Putin would never violate a deal brokered by the United States. We'll have to see how many Russian cease fire violations have to happen before Trump agrees that Putin is violating the agreement, and then the question becomes what would Trump (a powerful president) do.
The same problem exists for a U.S. brokered peace. Would Trump consider it a violation of the peace deal if Russia annexes Donetsk? How invested is Zelenskyy in recovering Crimea, which was not historically been part of Ukraine but was given to Ukraine by Krushchev 70 years ago?
In related news, the Greenland political party most opposed to acquisition by the United States won yesterday's election with 30% of the vote and will be forming a coalition with smaller parties to form a government.
I see tiny glints of hope, and I hope they're real.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by Tangle, posted 03-12-2025 12:16 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 560 of 575 (922466)
03-12-2025 12:14 PM


Transparency Again
In CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBILITY AND ETHICS IN WASHINGTON v. U.S. DOGE SERVICE, et al., a freedom of information request, U.S. District Judge Christopher Cooper ruling included the following:
quote:
News reports also suggest that USDS has continued to conduct at least some operations outside official government systems.
...
USDS’s operations thus far have been marked by unusual secrecy in other ways, too. For instance, USDS reportedly installed an outside server at OPM to store government staffers’ personal information, including their names and email accounts.
...
Moreover, reports that USDS personnel have gained access to sensitive data and payment systems, classified information without the appropriate clearances, and operate in secrecy using auto-deleting messaging apps like Signal, each call into question “the Government’s integrity...”
...
That is especially so given the secrecy with which USDS has operated. For instance, the name of the USDS Administrator was not even released until February 25, more than a month into the new administration.
...
CREW also notes reports that USDS employees have refused to identify themselves when requested to do so by career officials, further suggesting that the agency is operating with unusual secrecy. Sarah Cahalan et al., The People Carrying Out Musk’s Plans at DOGE, N.Y. Times (Mar. 6, 2025), Not Found - The New York Times. Indeed, Musk tweeted that a poster who published the names of USDS employees “committed a crime.” Peter Suciu, supra. USDS also allegedly installed an “illegally connected server” at the U.S. Office of Personnel Management’s headquarters to store personally identifiable information about executive branch employees. Dell Cameron, Federal Workers Sue to Disconnect DOGE Server, WIRED (Feb. 4, 2025), Page Not Found | WIRED.
This opinion appears at the top of the ruling:
quote:
MEMORANDUM OPINION
Government watchdog Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (“CREW”) lodged two Freedom of Information Requests with the Office of Management and Budget (“OMB”) and one with the United States DOGE Service (“USDS”) seeking to learn more about USDS’s role in spearheading the mass firings and dramatic disruptions to federal programs that have punctuated the opening weeks of President Trump’s second term. OMB accepted CREW’s requests and agreed to process them on an expedited basis given the public importance of the records sought. USDS, on the other hand, refuses to process CREW’s request to it on the ground that USDS is not an “agency” subject to FOIA. CREW sued and simultaneously sought a preliminary injunction ordering USDS to take up its request and requiring both entities to produce responsive documents by today’s date in order to inform public debate on appropriations legislation now being considered by Congress.
Finding that USDS is likely covered by FOIA and that the public would be irreparably harmed by an indefinite delay in unearthing the records CREW seeks, the Court will order USDS to process CREW’s request on an expedited timetable and, after receiving proposals on a production schedule, to begin producing documents on a rolling basis as soon as practicable.
CREW has not established that it is entitled to disclosure by a date certain, however. The Court will therefore deny CREW’s request for an order directing OMB and USDS to produce records by today. Finally, the Court will also order both entities to preserve all records that may be responsive to CREW’s FOIA requests.
At least as far as DOGE is concerned, the promised transparency is actually the opposite: extreme secrecy combined with a willingness to go to court to protect that secrecy.
--Percy

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9662
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 561 of 575 (922467)
03-12-2025 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 559 by Percy
03-12-2025 9:58 AM


Re: Is there maybe hope?
A big problem with the orange bumpkin's personality disorder is that this on/off, off/on stuff disrupts business - they can't plan or invest because they've no clue what the idiot might do next.
The economic term "business confidence" is important, without that economies go wrong quickly.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 559 by Percy, posted 03-12-2025 9:58 AM Percy has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3986
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 562 of 575 (922472)
03-13-2025 2:32 AM


USAid employees told to destroy classified documents
USAid employees told to destroy classified documents, email shows | Trump administration | The Guardian - Also at MANY other sources.
quote:
Officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAid) have begun a large-scale destruction of classified documents at their headquarters in the Ronald Reagan building in Washington DC including with shredders and using “burn bags”, according to an internal email seen by the Guardian.
This perhaps disturbs me as much as anything.
Suppressing disfavored information is bad enough. What information records are being entirely destroyed? Are they getting into the National Archives?
ERASING HISTORY THEY DON'T LIKE?
Fuck ***** and everyone who enables or otherwise supports him.
Moose

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1489
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 563 of 575 (922502)
03-14-2025 2:37 PM


Please sir, . . . may I have more lead and mercury . . .
Can ANYbody successfully argue that republican-voting-parents love their children? (Well, their votes certainly show that they love their guns more than their children.)
Similarly, if a parent purposefully votes to expose their children to MORE lead and mercury in our environment, isn't that an acknowledgement that they are abusive monsters, . . . and for the safety of their children, shouldn't their children be taken away from them?
__
quote:
Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lee Zeldin on Wednesday outlined plans for an aggressive rollback of environmental regulations.
he wants to reassess rules that, in his view, “throttled oil and gas production and unfairly targeted coal-fired power plants,”
". . . agency’s mission {is now} to make it cheaper to buy cars, and run businesses."
Oh, is that the mission of the EPA now? Capitalism? Didn't the "E" in EPA stand for environmental?
__
Also, . . .
quote:
The EPA also announced on Wednesday that it would end its environmental justice programs
Oh goody. That's just another speed-bump impeding profits.
https://www.nbcnews.com/...tal-regulations-zeldin-rcna196112
EPA head Lee Zeldin rolls back Biden-era environmental regulations | AP News
__
quote:
Matthew Tejada, who once led EPA’s environmental justice office, said Trump and Zeldin were “taking us back to a time of unfettered pollution across the nation, leaving every American exposed to toxic chemicals, dirty air and contaminated water.”
Instead of highlighting the importance of protecting human health and the environment, this administration is highlighting cutting cost in dollar figures while ignoring the human cost. The air we breathe and water we drink is a collective human right and more valuable than any dollar figure.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/...tal-regulations-zeldin-rcna196112
EPA head Lee Zeldin rolls back Biden-era environmental regulations | AP News

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 564 of 575 (922512)
03-14-2025 4:40 PM


Should there be limits on freedom of speech?
I'm all in on free speech, but Trump's persistent lying since 2015 is causing me to begin wondering whether we should question this nearly unquestionable American value. Today we learned that the Oklahoma Board of Education Adds Questioning the 2000 Election to the Curiculum. The NYT has a paywall, so here's a few paragraphs of excerpts:
quote:
High school students in Oklahoma would be asked to identify “discrepancies” in the 2020 election as part of U.S. history classes, according to new social studies standards recently approved by the Oklahoma Board of Education.
The proposed standards seem to echo President Trump’s false claims about his 2020 defeat. They ask students to examine factors such as “the sudden halting of ballot-counting in select cities in key battleground states” and “the security risks of mail-in balloting.”
They now head to the state’s Republican-controlled Legislature, which could take up the issue before its term ends in late May, or punt the issue to the governor’s desk.
Will Oklahoma's Republican controlled legislature reject it? If not, will their Republican governor?
If not then teaching lies could well become part of the school curriculum in Oklahoma, and all because of Donald Trump's impressive talent for promoting falsehoods. And in America, falsehoods are protected speech, with the well known "yelling fire in a crowded theater" types of exceptions. Is it possible not to threaten free speech while preventing the kind of speech responsible for what's happening in Oklahoma?
I have no answers.
--Percy

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2659
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 565 of 575 (922514)
03-14-2025 5:54 PM


time to primary these idiots?
These are the senators who collaborated with the GOP:
Schumer
Fetterman
Cortez Masto
Durbin
King
Shaheen
Gillibrand
Schatz
Hassan
Peters
Don’t let them forget it. No peace for them.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
"Enjoy every sandwich!"-Warren Zevon on his last DaveLetterman show

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


Replies to this message:
 Message 575 by Taq, posted 03-19-2025 5:31 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 566 of 575 (922518)
03-15-2025 11:59 AM


Is DOGE Already Affecting Social Security?
I cannot log into the Social Security website today using Chrome. When I go to The United States Social Security Administration | SSA and click on "Sign in" I get this:
Bad Request
Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.
Size of a request header field exceeds server limit.
Anyone else experiencing problems?
I use Chrome, but I tried Firefox and it worked fine. Chrome is often an early adopter of newly introduced security options, so I wonder if that is a factor. The change would have had to happen on the Social Security side, because I haven't updated Chrome in a while. I update infrequently because although the restart reopens all the tabs, the Chrome windows don't reopen on the correct desktops, and I have to relogin to many websites.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 567 by kjsimons, posted 03-15-2025 1:07 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 568 by dwise1, posted 03-15-2025 1:32 PM Percy has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 836
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 567 of 575 (922521)
03-15-2025 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by Percy
03-15-2025 11:59 AM


Re: Is DOGE Already Affecting Social Security?
I just tried accessing the SSA site using Chrome and I didn't get that error message, just the login page. I didn't actually login though as I haven't done so for quite awhile and need to look up my username and password. I'm still 4 1/2 years away from FRA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Percy, posted 03-15-2025 11:59 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 569 by xongsmith, posted 03-15-2025 8:48 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6238
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 568 of 575 (922522)
03-15-2025 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by Percy
03-15-2025 11:59 AM


Re: Is DOGE Already Affecting Social Security?
News I heard is that Trump's Social Security Admin (SSA) decided to close down the very successful and useful phone lines, requiring everyone to do all their business online or in person at a SSA field office. Not only does that make it much more difficult, if not impossible, for the elderly and handicapped to register for benefits or clear up problems, but the requirement to show up in person is being coupled with the closing of many, if not most, field offices.
According to the report, faced with considerable push-back they backed off from shutting down the phone lines. For now.
Now what you're reporting says that they are also crippling the website, such that the only option they offer you does not work. It's the return of Catch-22:
quote:
Yossarian: Is Orr crazy?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Of course he is. He has to be crazy to keep flying after all the close calls he's had.
Yossarian: Why can't you ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: I can, but first he has to ask me.
Yossarian: That's all he's gotta do to be grounded?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: That's all.
Yossarian: Then you can ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: No. Then I cannot ground him.
Yossarian: Aah!
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: There's a CATCH.
Yossarian: A catch?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Sure. Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat isn't really crazy, so I can't ground him.
Yossarian: Ok, let me see if I've got this straight. In order to be grounded, I've got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I'm not crazy anymore, and I have to keep flying.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: You got it, that's Catch-22.
Yossarian: Whoo... That's some catch, that Catch-22.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: It's the best there is.
Starting at the 2:00 mark:
Maj. Major Major Major: Sergeant, from now on, I don't want anyone to come in and see me while I'm in my office. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. What do I say to people who want to come in and see you while you're in your office?
Maj. Major Major Major: Tell them I'm in and ask them to wait.
First Sgt. Towser: For how long?
Maj. Major Major Major: Until I've left.
First Sgt. Towser: And then what do I do with them?
Maj. Major Major Major: I don't care.
First Sgt. Towser: May I send people in to see you after you've left?
Maj. Major Major Major: Yes.
First Sgt. Towser: You won't be here then, will you?
Maj. Major Major Major: No.
First Sgt. Towser: I see, sir. Will that be all?
Maj. Major Major Major: Also, Sergeant, I don't want you coming in while I'm in my office asking me if there's anything you can do for me. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. When should I come in your office and ask if there's anything I can do for you?
Maj. Major Major Major: When I'm not there.
First Sgt. Towser: What do I do then?
Maj. Major Major Major: Whatever has to be done.
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir.
What you're reporting is almost literally Maj. Major Major Major's standing orders: "You can only talk to us online, but only when we're not online."
I haven't had time yet to watch the news I recorded from last night, but I heard that report on MSNBC's Sirius XM channel while driving to duty last night which means it should have been on All In With Chris Hayes somewhere between 5:15 and 5:30.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Percy, posted 03-15-2025 11:59 AM Percy has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2659
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 569 of 575 (922525)
03-15-2025 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 567 by kjsimons
03-15-2025 1:07 PM


Re: Is DOGE Already Affecting Social Security?
kj concludes:
I'm still 4 1/2 years away from FRA.
FRA? is that Found Running Away?
ok, Full Retirement Age, but it threw me for a loop through the hulahoop.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
"Enjoy every sandwich!"-Warren Zevon on his last DaveLetterman show

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 567 by kjsimons, posted 03-15-2025 1:07 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18082
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 570 of 575 (922526)
03-16-2025 9:24 AM


Silencing the Voice of America
Almost the entire staff have been put on administrative leave. Radio Free Asia and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty have had their grants cancelled.
No reports of the reasons why yet, probably because they’re still being invented.

Replies to this message:
 Message 573 by PaulK, posted 03-17-2025 1:57 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025