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Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
dwise1
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Posts: 6238
Joined: 05-02-2006
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(2)
Message 541 of 576 (922375)
03-01-2025 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by xongsmith
03-01-2025 9:43 AM


Re: Military Coup needed
We really don't want to go there even though it may end up happening.
The situation would be like you being caught in the middle of a home invasion robbery of your business where they are just cavalierly carting away everything you own while randomly killing your employees and customers. You call the police to come and stop them because there are very definite laws on that matter which the robbers are flagrantly breaking. The police inform you that they can't do anything to help since they are under new management, the robbers are their new bosses. But you can go to the courts and file a lawsuit there. You might win after a few years, but even then the police's new management has a policy of ignoring court rulings.
The urgency couldn't be greater and requires immediate action. But the DOJ is complicit in the criming, so they won't do anything about it. The Republican-run Congress is also complicit and won't do anything, leaving us with the only hope with Congress is to win the next election two years from now (that's assuming elections will even still be held). The courts are proving to be our only hope, but not only are they far too slow to meet the need for immediate action stop the irreparable damage being done in real time, but their rulings require law enforcement to enforce those rulings and that law enforcement (eg, US Marshall Service) is working for the robbers and so will never enforce the courts' rulings.
In the meantime, other possible rapid responders (eg, FBI, CIA, DoD, military) are also being placed under new management as wholly-owned subsidiaries of the robbers. Since those agencies and institutions are having their entire leadership be replaced with the robbers, that eliminates them in terms of any kind of organized response, rapid or otherwise, except for response in support of the robbers.
Developments we see with the military is the top brass being replaced with Trump's DEI hires ("DEI" in the perverted weaponized MAGA sense), losers whose incompetence is surpassed only by their personal loyalty to Trump. Therefore, any kind of military response to this threat cannot come from the top of the Chain of Command, but rather would necessarily have to come from lower echelon leaders taking action on their own. That would lead to violent chaos in which patriotic units forced to act independently (or in ad hoc coalitions with each other) would be opposed by Trumpist forces being directed under the Chain of Command ... with extreme prejudice and violence characteristic of Trump's fantasies.
Having the military lead a coup in order to stop a horrifically and flagrantly criminal civilian government would be bad enough and hard enough to come back from with a unified military, but having to do it with a splintered military would destroy the Republic. The result would be armed civil war in which mainly the military would be fighting amongst itself with us serving as collateral damage.
The irony is that Trump will thus end up creating the "deep state" that he constantly decried but which did not exist. Before.
quote:
Zohan: "I have seen this. I have done this. You do not want this."
The same would apply to any rapid response from the intelligence community in that it would require lower echelon teams (as depicted in so much Hollywood fare) to respond independently and in direct violation of orders from the top. Again, an internal civil war and chaos.
And, of course, in the midst of all that national security would have been flushed completely down the tubes -- though that's already happening anyway right now with the wanton dismantling of law enforcement, intelligence, alliances, etc.
Things to look for in the coming months.
Trump will turn the active duty military being turned against us. It will make Kent State look like a snack break.
We are trained to obey lawful orders and to disobey unlawful orders. But that requires guidance on what constitutes an unlawful order. That determination is the job of the Judge Advocate General (JAG), military lawyers who advise military leaders. Trump's DUI hire, DefSec Numbnuts (or whatever his name is), has fired the JAG officers. That opens the door for abusive misuse of the military through unlawful orders.
We already saw this in Trump's first term where during the BLM demonstration in front of the White House (June 2020) Trump ordered active duty army units (82nd Airborne as I seem to recall) to oppose the demonstrators; he also pushed for use of deadly force against the demonstrators, Gen. Milley's opposition making him "back down" to "why don't you just shoot them in the legs?" But it was SecDef Esper who, knowing that Trump's calling out active duty military against American citizens was damned illegal, recalled those army units back to base. So Trump mobilized them again and Esper had to recall them back to base again.
The difference this time is that all the adults are gone. The current SecDef would gladly deploy active duty troops against American citizens. And when Trump orders that those troops fire on American citizens, his DUI-hire SecDef will gladly relay those orders.
The only thing stopping them would be for those troops to rebel and refuse to follow those orders. Which would spark the splintering of the military and an internal civil war that would grow into a general one.
Trump will use those demonstrations as an excuse to invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 which in turn he would use to justify his bloody response -- during the campaign, he kept talking about the Insurrection Act so we know he has his eye on using it. That will be part his final takeover and assumption of emergency powers.
Just like Hitler did, which leaves us wondering just what Trump's Reichstag fire will be. They're doing everything they can to leave us open and vulnerable to a terrorist attack (eg, by destroying the law enforcement and intelligence communities), so he might use such an attack as his excuse.
Nor is it hyperbole to compare everything Trump's doing with how Hitler consolidated power, since just about the only thing that Trump has studied has been what Hitler did. Besides, even Godwin has declared that Godwin's Law against comparing an opponent to Hitler does not apply to Trump:
Wikipedia:
In 2023, Godwin published an opinion in The Washington Post stating "Yes, it's okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don't let me stop you." In the article, Godwin says "But when people draw parallels between Donald Trump’s 2024 candidacy and Hitler’s progression from fringe figure to Great Dictator, we aren’t joking. Those of us who hope to preserve our democratic institutions need to underscore the resemblance before we enter the twilight of American democracy."
I need to take a break. Besides, I still have to make breakfast.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by xongsmith, posted 03-01-2025 9:43 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8729
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 542 of 576 (922377)
03-01-2025 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by xongsmith
03-01-2025 9:43 AM


Re: Military Coup needed
Too damn far!
"If the "president" is one of those enemies, they can arrest him."
BS.
The Joint Chiefs have no powers to arrest anyone. Who makes that judgement? You? Me?
From there you are left with maybe some disgruntled generals and colonels attempting a coup as rogue elements, but not as the "US Military". Then loyalties, commands and forces split and there is civil war.
Remember, we've been here before (1861).
I'm thinking the best thing for the Joint Chiefs is to keep a clear distance from this and hope the rule of law may still prevail and settle things before war gets here. If there is another massing of Army Trump to storm the Capital (for some stupid reason since they already own the place) then direct military action may be warranted. But this is DOMESTIC American politics (regardless of the international effects) with our "rule of law" ethos in full operation.
The American experiment with self rule and constitutional law is not yet dead. Keep your coup off my lawn!

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
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Posts: 18082
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 543 of 576 (922401)
03-04-2025 2:17 PM


Trump administration gets less transparent
Ars Technica
Unsurprisingly it’s RFK Jr at the Department of Health doing it. I wonder how he’d have reacted if anyone else were in charge.

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 544 of 576 (922405)
03-04-2025 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by PaulK
03-04-2025 2:17 PM


Re: Trump administration gets less transparent
Why did the "transparency" guy leave the room? Somehow I feel it's not out of embarrassment but because he's just so pleased with how things are going that he can't bother.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by PaulK, posted 03-04-2025 2:17 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 545 of 576 (922415)
03-05-2025 7:00 PM


Oh, what a surprise!
Oh, what a surprise! Trump has suspended the new tariffs for the automakers. Who would ever have guessed that tariffs would have a severely negative impact on some industries? Certainly not the Trump administration. What a masterful demonstration of lack of foresight and planning!
The reason the car industry is severely affected is that during manufacture the incompletely assembled automobile crosses the border multiple times, and each crossing (in either direction) will add 25% once Mexico implements their tariffs. Costs quickly multiply. Just three crossings back and forth (total of six) could easily add 100%, making me think that the number of crossings must be only two or three.
So far only the car industry has complained, but in this complex world there must be many other examples. How about the computer industry or the cell phone industry or shoe industry or the clothing industry, etc. There must be many industries where the not-yet-complete product crosses national borders more than once, and if there are tariffs then each crossing adds to the cost.
It would be nice if tariffs could be applied only to completed products, but that wouldn't work because then the automakers would make sure the final step takes place in the U.S. Also, one person's complete product is often just a platform for someone else to add more on.
Tariffs on everything are a bad idea, and bad ideas are something Trump has a particular affinity for. Tariffs are for protecting domestic industries from foreign competition. If a foreign country is heavily subsidizing a product, say electric cars, then we might put tariffs on their electric cars to protect our domestic industry. Or we might have an industry critical for national defense that we want to protect. But tariffs across the board make no sense.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 18082
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 546 of 576 (922418)
03-06-2025 2:50 AM


Stupidity and dishonesty
Cancelling scientific research based on keyword searches without understanding what the research is about is stupid. Pretending that you know what the research is about and bragging about the cancellation is dishonest.
Rolling Stone
But who cares about cancer and asthma research anyway?

  
Minnemooseus
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From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 547 of 576 (922419)
03-06-2025 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by Rahvin
02-21-2025 12:05 PM


Battle of the birds
Replying to this message as a search finds it is the most recent to mention Canada.
Fight between bald eagle and Canada goose in Burlington bay 'very symbolic,' says photographer | CBC News
quote:
Fight between bald eagle and Canada goose in Burlington bay 'very symbolic,' says photographer. Eagle gave up and spared the goose after 20-minute faceoff, says Mervyn Sequeira
The article goes on to say that the goose seemed to be ill (more poetic would for the eagle to be ill).
I can't get a great photo to embed, so go to the link above.
Moose

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 18082
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 548 of 576 (922420)
03-06-2025 4:59 AM


Diplomacy for the next four years
Don’t upset the man-baby. BBC
Trump just makes everything worse with his thin skin and spitefulness.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 549 of 576 (922423)
03-06-2025 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by Percy
03-05-2025 7:00 PM


Re: Oh, what a surprise!
Oh, what a surprise! Trump has delayed the start of the tariffs on Mexico for a month. He'll likely do the same for Canada, or not, who knows. There's a plan behind it all, and that's to keep Trump at the center of attention and to suck up all the air out of the room for the next four years. He will zig. He will zag. He will keep us in suspense. He will keep us guessing. He'll react to events as they occur, mainly the polls, the stock market, and how we'll he's playing on television. That's the plan.
--Percy
AbE: He also just decided not to disband the Department of Education today. Don't change the channel, folks. You don't want to miss any of the action.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
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Posts: 4093
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 550 of 576 (922424)
03-06-2025 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 549 by Percy
03-06-2025 12:39 PM


Re: Oh, what a surprise!
Meanwhile, what the entire world sees is that the US as an international partner and an investment market is completely and utterly unreliable. Chaos is not good for sustained, long term investment or partnerships.
American economic and political power, regarded just a couple months ago as the biggest and most influential superpower ever seen, is collapsing because of the actions of a single man and his insane cult.
@Phat - you want to know what will push countries to abandon the dollar standard? Look at what Trump is doing right now. You couldn't do a better job at pushing the entire world to regard the US dollar as unstable.

-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

-->Nihil supernum --> -->


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by Percy, posted 03-06-2025 12:39 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 552 by Percy, posted 03-07-2025 8:26 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6238
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 551 of 576 (922426)
03-06-2025 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by Rahvin
03-06-2025 1:05 PM


Re: Oh, what a surprise!
Chaos is not good for sustained, long term investment or partnerships.
You are making the mistake of assuming sustained, long term investment and partnerships to be their goals too. To paraphrase from Trump, those who work towards sustained, long term investment and partnerships are "suckers and losers", since the real money is in short term deals made in highly volatile situations.
Chaos is very good for making a lot of money, especially if you're rich enough to take advantage of it and be able to ride out the rough spots. The Great Depression was devastating for the economy and for the people, but the rich made out like out like bandits. When the housing bubble burst in 2008 (see The Big Short), many individual home owners had to walk away from their mortgages which were Hoovered up by the banks who sold them to investment firms, etc; bad for the people and the economy but good for the rich (also arguably a key component in our current housing crisis).
"Buy low and sell high" works extremely well if you can cause the market to oscillate, going from cratering (where the normals are panicked and liquidating for pennies on the dollar and you rich guy can buy everything up) to recovering (where you rich guy can sell at a huge profit). Kind of like day-trading on steroids. Especially when you are in a position of generating that chaos in the markets. And you also control the timing of that chaos so that you and your buddies can benefit from that inside trading information -- eg, as Trump is positioning the gov't to create a huge cryptocurrency reserve by buying large amounts of cryptocurrency, his buddies are buying large amounts of crypto knowing that there will be a guaranteed buyer (part of the problem with cryptocurrency investment is converting it to liquid assets -- it only has great value when held as an investment, but when you sell it that reduces its value).
None of what Trump and Musk are doing has anything to do with improving the country or its economy, but rather in how much they can profit from mishandling the government, by running the country into the ground if necessary (and the world too, if there's a profit to be made).
quote:
"Follow the money."
(Deep Throat to Bob Woodward, All the President's Men)
An afterthought regarding the bad idea of running a government like a business.
Businesses have slipped into the practice of pursuing short-term goals, mainly planning ahead only one quarter at a time. Instead of growing the business (eg, reinvesting profits back into the business), they have to show shareholders a profit every quarter. In order to do that, they have developed a number of tricks.
One trick is to use massive layoffs immediately before the end of the quarter to drastically lower your expenses, artificially inflating reported profits, and then hiring everybody back at the start of the next quarter. And isn't that exactly what President Musk is doing?

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 552 of 576 (922429)
03-07-2025 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 550 by Rahvin
03-06-2025 1:05 PM


Re: Oh, what a surprise!
Rahvin writes:
@Phat - you want to know what will push countries to abandon the dollar standard? Look at what Trump is doing right now. You couldn't do a better job at pushing the entire world to regard the US dollar as unstable.
Yes, that's important to note. A country retreating from the world in terms of trade, military power and political influence will be less able to maintain its currency's dominant status.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2025 1:05 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 553 of 576 (922430)
03-07-2025 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 535 by Percy
02-27-2025 7:14 AM


Re: Finally, something that makes sense
The Trump show continues. After allowing Musk to engage in headline grabbing and likely illegal firings and data grabs, Trump has walked the chaos back a little. Now it will be cabinet secretaries who make the hiring and firing decisions instead of Musk's DOGE, which has no official power in Washington. They are, at least on paper, an advisory group. Trump did say that if the cabinet secretaries can't carry out sufficient RIFs that then Musk's DOGE will do it, which is, again, just an advisory group with no power whose any attempt to taking control or action will be vulnerable to legal challenge.
Here's the first few paragraphs from a Bloomberg article:
Bloomberg:
President Donald Trump said he directed cabinet secretaries to use a “scalpel” rather than a “hatchet” to make personnel cuts, a directive aiming to quell blowback after waves of job cuts have roiled the federal workforce.
“I have instructed the Secretaries and Leadership to work with DOGE on Cost Cutting measures and Staffing,” Trump said in a social media post on Thursday, referring to Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency effort. “As the Secretaries learn about, and understand, the people working for the various Departments, they can be very precise as to who will remain, and who will go.”
“It’s very important that we cut levels down to where they should be, but it’s also important to keep the best and most productive people,” Trump added.
This is how it should have been from the beginning, with the exception of the part that implies DOGE might be a participant rather than an advisor.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Percy, posted 02-27-2025 7:14 AM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 554 of 576 (922436)
03-09-2025 9:39 AM


This is just a comment from an opinion piece by Jeremy Clarkson (have no idea who he is, but he must be somebody to get in the Sunday Times opinion section), Who’ll take on JD Vance? Guess it has to be me:
Jeremy Clarkson:
There’s a maniacal bully in the White House, a killer in the Kremlin and Nato is on the brink of collapse. And no one dares say anything because Trump is the school bully and he’ll flush your head down the loo. It will take a week or two for us all to get our heads round that. But soon we are going to need someone who will rage and rage against the dying of the light.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9662
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 555 of 576 (922440)
03-09-2025 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 554 by Percy
03-09-2025 9:39 AM


Clarkson is/was a presenter of Top Gear - wildly successful for a quite a few years.
He's got a few right wing views of his own. More an outspoken comedian than anyone you'd look to learning anything about the political systems of the world about. But he's spot on there.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by Percy, posted 03-09-2025 9:39 AM Percy has not replied

  
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