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Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 511 of 576 (922263)
02-21-2025 9:34 AM


What have we wrought?
This paragraph from America Joins the Jackals - by Mona Charen - The Bulwark expresses almost exactly how I feel:
The Bulwark:
It has been only four weeks since Trump took the oath of office, and I wonder whether casual voters or even those who truly despised Biden have taken onboard what they've done. The American republic is undergoing a constitutional crisis as the president attempts to rule as an autocrat ("He who wave his country violate no law," he claimed), a heedless billionaire smashes through people's lives and complex systems he doesn't understand with sadistic glee, the Justice Department descends into corrupt bargains antithetical to the ethical standards upheld for two centuries, a Putin/Assad apologist sits atop our intelligence agencies, a conspiracy theorist/anti-vaccine fool directs our health agencies, and the United States is attempting to reverse eighty years of world leadership.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 512 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2025 12:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 513 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2025 12:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 514 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2025 12:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4093
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 512 of 576 (922264)
02-21-2025 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Percy
02-21-2025 9:34 AM


Re: What have we wrought?
Not "attempting" to reverse world leadership.
We have damaged international relationships in Europe and with our closest partners in Canada and Mexico so badly in just 30 days that it will take generations, plural, to recover.
Trust takes a long time to earn and moments to betray. Trump has been speedrunning betrayal after betrayal of every important agreement alliance and other relationship he can think of.
We Americans are going to find out in the coming months and years exactly how much of our quality of life came from those relationships and American leadership.
And this is only the beginning. Trump is outright referring to himself as a king. At CPAC there was a serious movement to give Trump a 3rd term. The Federal government is being disassembled with a wrecking ball, so quickly the keep "accidentally" firing critical workers. The lawsuits around these actually illegal firings will take years and cost more than the salaries of those terminated. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are about to see major consequences as Musk and his team of Shitler Youth "investigate" and find "fraud" simply because they're all imbeciles who don't understand the data they're looking at, don't care about the responsibility needed to handle that data, and see virtually every expenditure as a waste that could have been a tax break for Botched-Penis-Enlargement-Elon-Musk (I dont care if the rumor is true, it should circulate).
It's possible that Congress will finally act and impeach him. If it happens, it's going to be after all of this and more is already done.
Call your representatives, senators, even state and local officials. Party affiliation doesnt matter - even Republicans should be against all of this, if they're not directly part of the MAGA cult. The opportunists can be swayed as soon as they think it's safer to jump ship. Call them as often as you can. Call the capitol switchboard and ask to speak to your rep, not only their local office in your state. Tell them what you want them to do, tell them how upset/angry/terrified you are.

-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

-->Nihil supernum --> -->


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Percy, posted 02-21-2025 9:34 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-06-2025 4:03 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4093
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 513 of 576 (922265)
02-21-2025 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Percy
02-21-2025 9:34 AM


Re: What have we wrought?
[ Duplicate post's content hidden. --Admin ]

-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

-->Nihil supernum --> -->


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Percy, posted 02-21-2025 9:34 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4093
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 514 of 576 (922266)
02-21-2025 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Percy
02-21-2025 9:34 AM


Re: What have we wrought?
[ Duplicate post's content hidden. --Admin ]

-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

-->Nihil supernum --> -->


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Percy, posted 02-21-2025 9:34 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 515 of 576 (922268)
02-21-2025 3:01 PM


Where's the Beef?
I know the "Trump administration will be the most transparent in history" guy has left the room, but this is the right thread to note that DOGE, currently taking a wrecking ball to government, has no transparency, as described in the Washington Post article Musk’s blitzkrieg is unnerving many of Trump’s senior advisers:
Washington Post:
Officials have been blindsided by DOGE’s actions.
...
Top treasury officials have complained about disruption. The secretary of state has pushed back on staff cuts. Inside the Education and Health and Human Services departments, political appointees have been informed — not consulted — about canceled grants and contracts, sometimes learning about decisions from the media.
Elon Musk’s aggressive tactics to reshape the federal government have irritated and blindsided many senior officials in the Trump administration, including those tasked with running Cabinet departments being squeezed by his U.S. DOGE Service, according to interviews with more than 30 current and former officials and their advisers, many of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal matters.
...
And yet agency heads Trump chose are finding themselves caught off-guard by DOGE’s actions and forced to reverse, mitigate or answer for some of its most disruptive moves.
...
But Trump’s political appointees are quietly expressing unease with Musk as well.
“Basically every Cabinet member is sick of him, but nobody feels like they’re in a position to do anything about it,” said one person who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations with several incoming secretaries or their staffs. “People are afraid to cross him even as he’s wreaking havoc on their agencies.”
...
But the extent of Musk’s ability to execute sweeping changes without approval or input from department heads appears to be unprecedented — and unsettling for the Cabinet.
“Why do you want to be a Cabinet secretary if you can’t run your own agency and the president and Elon Musk run your agency for you? That doesn’t seem like a great job to me. It’s very unusual. We’ve never seen anything like this,” said Doug Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a right-leaning think tank. “These uncoordinated efforts have downsides — you have the secretaries and DOGE at cross-purposes, and that doesn’t serve anyone well.”
When you downsize an agency, whether you're the president or someone he's appointed or a cabinet secretary or a department head, there is a constructive and a destructive way to do it. DOGE is doing it in an obviously destructive way.
Trump and Musk deny this characterization, but all the indications that they are lying are there, from the blindsided cabinet secretaries to the unfirings of essential personnel to the firing of staff exempt from being summarily fired to the court rulings against the administration. Trump and Musk deny the criticism and claim it is made up because it is anonymous, but one would have to have lived under a rock for the last decade to not know that speaking out publicly in the Trump administration guarantees firing, so of course all the criticism is anonymous.
Anyway, so much for transparency.
--Percy

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6238
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 516 of 576 (922280)
02-22-2025 5:46 AM


Voting Them Out?
But can we really vote them out? Can we really be sure there will be elections in 2026, let alone in 2028?
 
BTW, that video was from 12 years ago.
Firefly pilot, "Serenity":
"We're humped!"

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Phat, posted 02-22-2025 7:50 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18740
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 517 of 576 (922281)
02-22-2025 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 516 by dwise1
02-22-2025 5:46 AM


Re: Voting Them Out?
"We" can surely vote them out just as we voted them in. Furthermore, we can ensure that there will always be honest elections in America.
By the way, I looked up the political action committee that Percy was talking about. Read about a fellow named Norm Coleman. He has quite an interesting resume. We need more like him.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by dwise1, posted 02-22-2025 5:46 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 518 by Percy, posted 02-22-2025 10:34 AM Phat has replied
 Message 519 by Tangle, posted 02-22-2025 11:19 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 518 of 576 (922282)
02-22-2025 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Phat
02-22-2025 7:50 AM


Re: Voting Them Out?
Phat writes in Message 517:
"We" can surely vote them out just as we voted them in.
Once the bull has trampled through the china shop, evicting him is small consolation.
By the way, I looked up the political action committee that Percy was talking about. Read about a fellow named Norm Coleman.
I have not mentioned any PACs in this thread. I have never heard of Norm Coleman. You are delusional. Henceforth, when you claim someone here was talking about something, provide a link to the message.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Phat, posted 02-22-2025 7:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by Phat, posted 02-23-2025 2:44 AM Percy has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9662
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 519 of 576 (922283)
02-22-2025 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Phat
02-22-2025 7:50 AM


Re: Voting Them Out?
Phat writes:
"We" can surely vote them out just as we voted them in. Furthermore, we can ensure that there will always be honest elections in America.
After he's altered the course of history by giving away countries and wrecking international alliances he'll get to work on ensuring his illegal third term. You'll never get rid of him and anyway, the damage will be done.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Phat, posted 02-22-2025 7:50 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 520 of 576 (922288)
02-22-2025 1:20 PM


Trump Will Be Our Last Elected President
We already have enough evidence to conclude that Trump will be our last elected president, at least under the Constitution as we now know it. Here's his chief minister giving a Nazi salute:
And here's Bannon giving the same salute:
And here's an excerpt from Trump's Tuesday, February 19, 2025, Executive Order—Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies:
Trump Executive Order:
The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President's supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch. The President and the Attorney General's opinions on questions of law are controlling on all employees in the conduct of their official duties. No employee of the executive branch acting in their official capacity may advance an interpretation of the law as the position of the United States that contravenes the President or the Attorney General's opinion on a matter of law, including but not limited to the issuance of regulations, guidance, and positions advanced in litigation, unless authorized to do so by the President or in writing by the Attorney General.
In other words, it doesn't matter what the courts interpretation of the law is, in the executive branch the law is what Trump says it is.
This is just a first step, but it is reminiscent of Hitler's first actions after becoming chancellor in 1933 when after the Reichstag fire he convinced president Hindenberg to declare a state of emergency which Hitler used to push measures through the Reichstag that made Germany a one-party state and gave Hitler dictatorial powers.
You heard it here first, folks. The next president will be Trump or someone Trump selects, either outright or through electoral manipulation. The USA is dead. Long live the UST.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2025 2:40 PM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18082
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 521 of 576 (922291)
02-22-2025 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Percy
02-22-2025 1:20 PM


Re: Trump Will Be Our Last Elected President
Surely the “UST” should be called Trumpistan.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Percy, posted 02-22-2025 1:20 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by Percy, posted 02-22-2025 3:04 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23257
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 522 of 576 (922293)
02-22-2025 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by PaulK
02-22-2025 2:40 PM


Re: Trump Will Be Our Last Elected President
Suggestions from ChatGPT:
  • The Trumpire
  • The United States of MAGA
  • Trumptopia
  • The Great and Tremendous States of America
  • Trumpagonia
  • Trumperica
  • The Federal Republic of Covfefe
  • The Bigly States of America
And if Musk were given the job of renaming the country:
  • Teslarica
  • The United States of X
  • Cybermerica
  • The Free Mars Republic (Formerly Earth Division)
  • Musklandia
  • The PayPal Confederacy
  • Starbase One
  • Elongated States of America (Because everything should be stretched beyond reason)
  • DOGE Nation
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2025 2:40 PM PaulK has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2660
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 523 of 576 (922294)
02-22-2025 4:33 PM


how about a Military Coup?
how about we get General Milley to bring hundreds of armed soldiers into the Whitehouse, handcuff Trump and drag him out to a police car and take him to a cold hard jail cell. Or get him at the golf course with hundreds of armed soldiers and take him to that cold hard jail cell. get all branches of the military to join Milley.
then a few days later have a general election do-over with Trump and his loyal Republicans not allowed to be on the ballot. Maybe Liz Cheney could run for the Republicans then. I'm not a fan of her conservatism, but I am a fan of her stance against Trump.
maybe have Gretchen Whitmer or Liz Warren or my choice, AOC, run against Cheney in an all-woman election!
that would wake up the MAGA NAZIs.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
"Enjoy every sandwich!"-Warren Zevon on his last DaveLetterman show

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


Replies to this message:
 Message 524 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2025 6:16 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2660
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 524 of 576 (922295)
02-22-2025 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 523 by xongsmith
02-22-2025 4:33 PM


Re: how about a Military Coup?
and have General CQ Brown join General Milley...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2025 4:33 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18740
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 525 of 576 (922296)
02-23-2025 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by Percy
02-22-2025 10:34 AM


Re: Voting Them Out?
Percy writes:
We’ve never seen anything like this,” said Doug Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a right-leaning think tank.
OK, so its a think tank and not a PAC. Excuuuuuuse me!
You said:
Henceforth when you claim someone here was talking about something, provide a link to the message.
That was Message 515
According to Wiki,Norm Coleman. is
quote:
In 2010, Coleman became chairman and CEO of the American Action Network, which he co-founded.
Is that good enough?

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Percy, posted 02-22-2025 10:34 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Percy, posted 02-23-2025 9:11 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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