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Author Topic:   The disconnect between the bible, and its horrific actions versus the message
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 20 of 57 (919427)
07-10-2024 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
07-07-2024 6:44 AM


Percy writes:
I was raised Unitarian. I never believed the Bible stories were real, but I did believe they characterized the God of Christianity, that the stories were intended to send a message. The OT does not paint a pretty picture, and the NT interpretation where no one who hasn't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior can go to heaven, even if they've never heard of him, seems just as severe as the OT, minus the slaughter and genocide and salt pillars and all that.
Firstly I would say that the message that we should take from the Noah story that no matter how bad things get, God doesn't give up on us. The flood story IMHO is a legend that grew up within various cultures around some local flood centuries ago.
I strongly disagree with your take on the NT. Firstly it isn't about going to heaven at all but about heaven coming to earth, or more pointedly, the renewal of all things in this world. We are only given a very broad image of what would be like, with things like no suffering and not being stuck with one dimension in time doing away with entropy.
Most of the things that are taken of people going to hell after death are not about that at all. Jesus was a revolutionist but a non-violent one. His message is that if you keep up with pushing for violent revolution there will a disastrous end and then uses OT hyperbolic imagery to emphasize His message, which would be hell on earth. He even predicted what eventually happened in the war starting in 66 AD roughly 30 years later.
In Canada Trudeau is our Prime Minister. Yes i believe he is, but I don't believe in him. Jesus' message is consistent with my signature. His call is about self ging love. That is what constitutes believing in Jesus. Essentially it's about the heart. What matters isn't what we believe or what we do, but about how we love. We can follow that command whether we are Christian, Islamic, atheist or even Unitarian.
As far as judgement is concerned I don't really concern myself with it as I believe in a God that is consistent with what God asks with us in my signature.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 07-07-2024 6:44 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 07-10-2024 3:11 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 07-10-2024 4:58 PM GDR has replied
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 07-10-2024 8:43 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 36 by Percy, posted 07-11-2024 9:39 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 29 of 57 (919436)
07-10-2024 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Taq
07-10-2024 4:58 PM


Taq writes:
Really? God wipes out billions of people, and from this you get the impression that God won't ever give up on people?
It's legendary mythology. God didn't wipe out anybody. The point is even if there is only one righteous person left God isn't giving up on us.
Taq writes:
The Noah story is a rather obvious copy of the Utnapishtim flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The story in the Epic of Gilgamesh has an ark with family and animals, birds finding a branch after the flood, and a rainbow after the flood. The Noah story appears to be a retelling of a known story in a Jewish context with undertones of cultural appropriation.
I knew that the Noah story followed Gilgamesh but the name Utnapishtim sent me scurrying to Mr. Google. He was the Noah character in the Gilgamesh story. It's a bad day when you don't learn something./

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 07-10-2024 4:58 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Taq, posted 07-11-2024 12:39 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 37 of 57 (919452)
07-11-2024 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Percy
07-11-2024 9:39 AM


Percy writes:
That's you. Most conservative Christians take the flood story as literal truth and are therefore worshipping a monster. And the flood is just one of many OT examples.
And you know that how. I've been involved in church life for numerous years and I haven't met all that many Christians who would read that literally. Actually it's more of an American thing.
Percy writes:
Again, that's you, not conservative Christians. I have a couple responses:

How is preaching working for ya here so far?

And you know this how?

You have your own set of eclectic religious views about which you'll go on endlessly, continually and repeatedly cycling back to earlier issues which you left people feeling were settled, as captured in Choosing a faith.
Sure it's easier for the vast majority of posters on this forum so mock the strawman you have set up. I don't think I've changed any minds but I've tried to a show that to be a conservative Christian, (which is a label that you have attached), you don't have to conform to your strawman.
I suppose I have repeated things that I've posted several times previously but just maybe I repeat them because posters here keep pounding away with the same attacks they have made all along.
So as I'm sorry if I'm boring you and you can carry on carrying on.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Percy, posted 07-11-2024 9:39 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2024 12:22 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 42 by dwise1, posted 07-11-2024 1:02 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 07-11-2024 2:51 PM GDR has not replied

  
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