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Author Topic:   Gonna be hot time in the old town tonight.
Percy
Member
Posts: 22941
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 16 of 41 (919065)
06-20-2024 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Theodoric
06-20-2024 10:53 AM


Theodoric writes in Message 15:
I understand you are talking about the northeast. I was too. I grew up in the northeast,...
I'm here in the northeast right now. The city closest to me didn't reach a record temperature yesterday, and it won't set a record today, either.
The reporting is accurate.
But you don't live here anymore, so how would you know? You haven't experienced how bad a job the national news is doing these days in reporting New England weather events. Those of us who live here can see the disparity with our own eyes. Sure, after an extreme weather event like a nor'easter or a hurricane that has wandered this far north, here and there will be downed trees and power lines and so forth, but for 99% of the people nothing happened. Despite that the national news makes it sound like we're a region in dire straights experiencing great distress
Even local weather reporting and forecasting does this. "Ooh, here come's a nor'easter, it's going to be a big one. Be sure to stay tuned in to our storm desk to bring you everything you'll need to know about this impending weather event." Over the past decade they've become increasingly wrong, consistently predicting more snow and more extreme conditions than actually happen. Most of the time life goes on as if nothing happened. Yes, if it snows you have to clear the driveway and sidewalk, and the snowplows have to clear the streets, but that's just normal for New England.
I find the headlines alarmist in a way designed to generate clicks, and the reporting focused on the worst circumstances instead of providing an accurate overview of the region. For instance, here's a short excerpt from the Axios article I referenced earlier, Searing heat wave drives record temperatures across eastern U.S.:
quote:
By the numbers: Southern New England saw multiple daily temperature records set, including in Boston, which hit 98°F on Wednesday.
  • The National Weather Service noted on Wednesday several Maine cities were tied for the hottest June 19. This included in Caribou, which reached 96°F, tied for its all-time hottest temperature on record, and preliminary data indicated the 103°F heat index an "unofficial all-time record."

Boston temperatures are measured at Logan Airport, notoriously inconsistent with what is happening in Boston. And ooh, Caribou, Maine's 43rd largest city. Meanwhile, Portland, Lewiston and Bangor, 5-10 times larger than Caribou, did not experience record highs.
The fact of the matter is that despite the breathless tone of articles like this, for 99% of the people life just goes on the same as it always has. It's weather. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's cold, sometimes it's moderate. Sure there are newsworthy weather events, but for New England this "heat wave" isn't one of them
What *is* news but is very infrequently mentioned is the variable way in which climate change is affecting different regions of the US. Unlike most of the rest of the country, New England is not becoming warmer. In New England this isn't even a heat wave. Yes, it's hot, but two hot days in a row do not a heat wave make.
The reality is that temperatures in New England are becoming more moderate. Extreme weather events are becoming more common, not usually in the form of snow (annual snowfall has been dropping) but in the form of rain and sometimes wind.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Theodoric, posted 06-20-2024 10:53 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2024 10:52 AM Percy has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 17 of 41 (919072)
06-21-2024 8:40 AM


God doesn't care
More than 1,000 hajj pilgrims die amid temperatures approaching 52C in Mecca
The death toll from this year’s hajj has exceeded 1,000, with more than half of the victims unregistered worshippers who performed the pilgrimage in extreme heat in Saudi Arabia.
The new deaths reported on Thursday included 58 from Egypt, according to an Arab diplomat who provided a breakdown showing that of 658 Egyptians who died, 630 were unregistered pilgrims.
About 10 countries have reported 1,081 deaths during the pilgrimage, one of the five pillars of Islam which all Muslims with the means must complete at least once.
The hajj, whose timing is determined by the lunar Islamic calendar, fell again this year during the oven-like Saudi summer.
More than 1,000 hajj pilgrims die amid temperatures approaching 52C in Mecca | Hajj | The Guardian

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 18 of 41 (919073)
06-21-2024 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Percy
06-20-2024 2:50 PM


I am aware you are in the northeast I have a lot of family and friends there. People do not have to be in location to understand things.
I'm here in the northeast right now. The city closest to me didn't reach a record temperature yesterday, and it won't set a record today, either.
But cities in the region have and will.
Londonderry high 6/20 98F Record 96 F for the date. Avg temp for the date is 76F
Londonderry, NH Weather History | Weather Underground
Augusta, ME high 6/20 95F Record 95F for the date. Avg temp is 75F
Temps 20F over average are not newsworthy? Seemingly you think only hitting an all time record is newsworthy. These are very high temps for any date in that region. People need to be aware to take extra precautions and check on the sick, young and elderly. Is that not a purpose of the media?
but for 99% of the people nothing happened.
99%? You have data for this? Maybe exaggerating a little. Just because it does not affect you does not mean it does not affect a number of people. Your libertarian leanings are showing.
Boston temperatures are measured at Logan Airport, notoriously inconsistent with what is happening in Boston.
Data? Source?
Newton, 13 miles west from the airport was 2 degrees cooler yesterday.
Beverly, 20 miles north, was also 2 degrees cooler.
Framingham, 25 miles east was the same temp as the airport.
Meanwhile, Portland, Lewiston and Bangor, 5-10 times larger than Caribou, did not experience record highs.
Portland winds were out of the N-NE yesterday. Portland can have extremely different temps than surrounding cities. It is like here. Duluth, MN and Superior, WI can have 30F degree temp differences than areas 15 miles out. Large bodies of water have a moderating affect. 
And ooh, Caribou, Maine's 43rd largest city. Meanwhile, Portland, Lewiston and Bangor, 5-10 times larger than Caribou, did not experience record highs.
I feel like there is some sort of bastardization of the right wing idea that land votes, here. I guess we should remove Death Valley highs from reporting as no one really lives there. [qs]The fact of the matter is that despite the breathless tone of articles like this, for 99% of the people life just goes on the same as it always has. It's weather. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's cold, sometimes it's moderate. Sure there are newsworthy weather events, but for New England this "heat wave" isn't one of them{/qs]
breathless tones? They are reporting factual data. Again the 99% figure? Source? Data? Just because it does not have an immediate affect on you does not mean it does not not on other people.
The reality is that temperatures in New England are becoming more moderate.
Yes. Verifiably true, but not what we are seeing at this moment.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 06-20-2024 2:50 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Percy, posted 06-21-2024 11:44 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22941
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 19 of 41 (919076)
06-21-2024 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Theodoric
06-21-2024 10:52 AM


Theodoric writes in Message 18:
I am aware you are in the northeast I have a lot of family and friends there. People do not have to be in location to understand things.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm trying to characterize the disparity between weather forecasting and reporting here in New England versus the actual reality. If you don't believe me then there's not much I can do about that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2024 10:52 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2024 1:52 PM Percy has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 20 of 41 (919079)
06-21-2024 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Percy
06-21-2024 11:44 AM


I am disagreeing that there is a disparity. I have heard from numerous friends and family there and none have felt the same as you. I asked. I don't know what to tell you. If you don't believe me then there's not much I can do about that.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Percy, posted 06-21-2024 11:44 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Percy, posted 06-21-2024 8:26 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22941
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 21 of 41 (919083)
06-21-2024 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Theodoric
06-21-2024 1:52 PM


Theodoric writes in Message 20:
I am disagreeing that there is a disparity. I have heard from numerous friends and family there and none have felt the same as you. I asked. I don't know what to tell you. If you don't believe me then there's not much I can do about that.
Do you mean you've told "numerous friends and family" what I said, and "none have felt the same" as me? They agreed with the characterization of heat wave or that headline I cited that called it "searing heat"?
Did your friends and family happen to mention the two exaggerated snowfall forecasts this winter? One channel called one of them something like "snowmageddon", and then nothing happened, just a few inches. Of course weather can to be difficult to predict, but that wasn't the case for this one. We could see the storm on radar, the storm was small, the forecast was inexplicable, so we ignored it.
When we do get extreme weather, which of course we do sometimes, the national news often greatly exaggerates how hard we were hit. This past winter after one storm (a real one) our son contacted us from thousands of miles away to ask if we were okay because of what he'd heard on the news. Near us it was 8 inches of heavy snow. Scattered limbs and power lines down. No big deal.
Of course sometimes we do get hit hard. I'll never forget the ice storm of 2008. We had no power for 8 days. We have a well, so also no water. The national news gave it a lot of attention for a few days.
I think the weather forecasting and coverage we see is a manifestation of the news media's need to keep the attention of viewers, listeners, readers and surfers. It's along the lines of an "if it bleeds it leads" kind of thing. And they'll abandon coverage or at least greatly lessen coverage of events where they feel the public's attention is waning.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2024 1:52 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 22 of 41 (919112)
06-26-2024 10:55 AM


NE some of fasting warming states and cities
The article clearly states sources at end of the article.
Conventional wisdom always needs to be verified.
Earth Day: U.S. Warming Rankings | Climate Central
quote:
The fastest-warming U.S. cities and states based on the increase in annual average temperature since 1970 were:
Fastest-warming cities (°F)Fast-warming states (°F)Reno, Nev. (+7.7°)Alaska (+4.3°)Las Vegas, Nev. (+5.9°)Delaware (+3.5°)El Paso, Texas (+5.1°)New Mexico (+3.5°)Erie, Pa. (+4.7°)New Jersey (+3.4°)Tucson, Ariz. (+4.6°)Arizona (+3.3°)Chattanooga, Tenn. (+4.6°)Rhode Island (+3.2°)Burlington, Vt. (+4.5°)Massachusetts (+3.2°)Phoenix, Ariz. (+4.3°)Connecticut (+3.2°)McAllen, Texas (+4.1°)Utah (+3.0°)Helena, Mont. (+4.1°)Vermont (+3.0°)

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 06-26-2024 11:14 AM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 24 by Percy, posted 06-26-2024 2:03 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 41 (919113)
06-26-2024 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Theodoric
06-26-2024 10:55 AM


Re: NE some of fasting warming states and cities
McAllen, Texas (+4.1°)
The cities of McAllen, Mission, Edinburg & Pharr in Texas are actually all one contiguous area.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Theodoric, posted 06-26-2024 10:55 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22941
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 24 of 41 (919116)
06-26-2024 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Theodoric
06-26-2024 10:55 AM


Re: NE some of fasting warming states and cities
Much of the temperature increase in New England is from winter. Winters are warming more than summers. Here's a brief excerpt about New Hampshire from New Hampshire - State Climate Summaries 2022 (all the states are covered at this site):
quote:
Warming has increased more in the winter than in any other season. Future winter warming will have large effects on snowfall and snow cover.
Summers are warming too, but more in the sense of more days that are hot as opposed to more days where a record high temperature is set. I spent a couple minutes trying to find a graph or chart showing the number of days experiencing record highs in the region but couldn't find one.
But my original complaint was about exaggerated local weather forecasting and exaggerated national weather reporting for the region.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Theodoric, posted 06-26-2024 10:55 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.9


Message 25 of 41 (919286)
07-06-2024 11:05 AM


100+ temps in the Pacific Northwest
Our weather station showed 101.9F as our high temp for yesterday, but predictions are for hotter today (104F) and the next 3 days. In the U.S. excess heat kills more people than all other weather related deaths combined. The extreme 115+ heatwave of 25-28 June 2021 impacted the homeless more than anyone else. It supposedly caused Damages: United States: ≥$8.9 billion (2021 USD), Peak temp: 49.6 °C (121.3 °F), recorded at Lytton, British Columbia.
Wikipedia:
The extreme heat sparked numerous, extensive wildfires, some reaching hundreds of square kilometers in area. The eponymous Lytton wildfire destroyed the village of Lytton, British Columbia, the day after the city set the record high temperature for Canada. Extreme heat also damaged road and rail infrastructure, forced closures of businesses, disrupted cultural events, and melted snowcaps, in some cases resulting in flooding.[11] The heat wave also caused extensive damage to agriculture across the region, resulting in substantial loss of crop yield and the death of 651,000 farm animals.[12] The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) estimated that the heatwave caused at least $8.9 billion (2021 USD) in damages in the USA.[4]
The death toll exceeded 1,400 people, with at least 808 estimated in western Canada.[2] The Chief Coroner of British Columbia reported that 619 deaths were recorded due to heat exposure in the week from June 25 to July 1.[13] Confirmed deaths in the United States include at least 116 in Oregon (of which 72 are in Multnomah County, which includes Portland),[14] at least 112 in Washington[15] and one death in Idaho;[16] An analysis by The New York Times suggests that around 600 excess deaths occurred the week the heat wave passed through Washington and Oregon.[3]
I'm spending the cooler hours in the morning today until about noon on my stream trying to get video of the mating displays and behavior of River Jewelwing damselflies.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-06-2024 7:19 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.9


Message 26 of 41 (919303)
07-06-2024 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tanypteryx
07-06-2024 11:05 AM


Re: 100+ temps in the Pacific Northwest
103.5F here at 4:12 pm My daughter lives on a hill in forest overlooking Portland and they are at 96.
I have seen 117, 119 and 121 listed for Redding California today.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-06-2024 11:05 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Percy, posted 07-07-2024 11:44 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22941
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 27 of 41 (919335)
07-07-2024 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tanypteryx
07-06-2024 7:19 PM


Re: 100+ temps in the Pacific Northwest
We can't compete. We're going to hit 90 or 91 for four days starting today.
Also, our electric voltage has been dropping below 115V several times a day recently.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-06-2024 7:19 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2024 12:25 PM Percy has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 28 of 41 (919337)
07-07-2024 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Percy
07-07-2024 11:44 AM


Re: 100+ temps in the Pacific Northwest
We might hit 75F today. Mid 80's during the week. The rain finally stopped for a while.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Percy, posted 07-07-2024 11:44 AM Percy has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 29 of 41 (919338)
07-07-2024 2:54 PM


But it's a dry heat. Blast furnace.

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-07-2024 3:53 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.9


Message 30 of 41 (919343)
07-07-2024 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by AZPaul3
07-07-2024 2:54 PM


Holy Crap! I can't even imagine my life in that blast furnace. At least, I would never need to mow the freaking yard!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2024 2:54 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
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