Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
Zuc, you stated:
"See, creationists have no clue about how to do actual scientific research into claims, so instead they misrepresent and create ridiculous strawmen to debunk and then go "AHAH! GOTCHA" like it means something."
***There are creation scientists.
Educate me. Are you a theistic evolution?
If you are, you believe in the Creator. If not, you must prove the origin of everything.
Don't attempt to use God's creation for your own worldview.
I will understand if you cannot answer about the origin of life.
Even you know that you are on the losing end when all you can do is to inject completely irrelevant stuff.
For once in your benighted life, stay on topic!
ABE: {
Your question is even more irrelevant because THE QUESTION OF HOW SOMETHING EXISTS HAS NO BEARING ON THE SIMPLE FACT THAT IT DOES INDEED EXIST. Duh?
It's like that creationist pushing the creationist ozone-layer claim that chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) cannot be responsible for depletion of the ozone layer because they're too heavy to get into the upper atmosphere, despite the fact that CFCs have indeed been found there. Despite knowing that his claim was false (ie, he provided a list of "unanswered" questions which I showed him came straight from NOAA's FAQ along with detailed answers to each and every one of the questions he claimed to have been "unanswered" -- like you, he just got the claim from another creationist and never bothered to try to verify it even when I did all the research for him), he chose to post it on his website knowing that it was false and then deliberately chose to repost it in his site's next three incarnations, despite my repeatedly pointing out to him that he was deliberately lying to his readers (to which he always responded by running away). Finally after 11 years he admitted his error and took down that claim, though he still insisted that there are no CFCs in the upper atmosphere solely because he couldn't imagine how they could have gotten there. And yet, there they are! Like Sulu's remark when he unexpectedly shows up in Howard's sex fantasy (from Big Bang Theory):
George Takei:So you say, and yet here I am.
The universe and everything in it exists; there's no question about that and nothing you want to believe or not believe has any effect on that simple fact.
It exists regardless of which of the hundreds of thousands of Creators was involved, or even no Creator at all.
Therefore, your question/challenge is nothing more than the same old stupid bullshit you've been peddling.
If you really want to push the idea of that Creator being your own particular god along with his truckloads of theological baggage then YOU must make that case.
So far, despite almost every single creationist and fundie having tried to use the same argument, NONE of them has ever even tried to make an actual case for THEIR OWN PARTICULAR GOD. None of them and most particularly not you.
}
If you tell me that you are a theistic evolutionists, then there is no reason to focus on abiogenesis.
What the fuck are you babbling about? That conditional statement makes no sense at all.
Besides Y*O*U are the only one who keeps focusing on abiogenesis!
Does that mean that Y*O*U are a theistic evolutionist? If so, then just come out of the closet and say so!
What is so pathologically wrong with you?
Are you a TE?
No, I'm an atheist. Have been for 60 years, so I am saved (from the brain rot that keeps you from being able to engage in any kind of discussion).
As such (unlike you sorry sod) I am able to learn about anything, think about it (no need for constant self-policing of my every thought), evaluate different ideas, and even examine and discuss different ideas. You are forbidden to do any of that, which makes it so impossible to talk with you about anything.
You have everything turned around, despite our having explained it to you over and over again.
Are you a theistic evolution? If you are, you believe in the Creator. If not, you must prove the origin of everything.
Are you kidding us? There is no such requirement for us! You are the one making a claim, not us, so you need to support that claim, not us! That means that if you insist on "the Creator", then YOU are required to prove that Creator. Our refusal to accept your unsupported claims prima facie is due to your not having made your case.
Stop trying to foist your work onto us, you stupid gold-bricking asshole! It's your job, not ours, SO DO YOUR OWN WORK!
Don't attempt to use God's creation for your own worldview.
We're not. Especially since your "God's creation" is completely made-up and contrary to reality. That is because, as a creationist, you deny the natural universe and try to replace it with your imagined "God's creation".
As I have already explained to you, a person who believed in actual Creation would see the universe as the natural part of The Creation. That is what science studies and has learned very much about. But creationists' "God's creation" is completely different from The Creation and, since The Creation (AKA Reality) conflicts with their "God's creation", they reject The Creation and replace it with their "God's creation", actually teaching that if The Creation is what we find instead of their "God's creation", then that would disprove God.
So, our own worldview incorporates the natural universe which an actual believer in Creation (ie, as opposed to a creationist) would accept as part of The Creation, and which has nothing whatsoever to do with your stupid made-up "God's creation."
Why do you constantly present such stupid bullshit?
I will understand if you cannot answer about the origin of life.
Again, just what the exact fuck is the origin of life supposed to have to do with anything? Especially with evolution?
However, what you are doing is an extremely dishonest creationist tactic that I call "throwing 'unanswerable' questions' at us." Your "question" is intended to intimidate your opponent and scare him off, or at the very least to kill the discussion. Another term for it would be "deflect and evade", since it's used to avoid having to answer the questions that you need to address.
An interesting feature of such "questions" is that you have no interest whatsoever in getting an answer. I know the very well from a years-long correspondence with a creationist who did nothing but throw one "unanswerable" question after another at me, almost all of which I did answer. He would insist that he very much wanted to know the answer, but then when I did answer it and tried to discuss my answer with him he would lose all interest and either run away or change the subject with yet another "unanswerable" question.
And you do exactly the same thing: when we answer your questions you refuse to even look at it (eg, your whiney little bitch complaint that your fucking stupid phone is too tiny to read anything on). So if you never intend to even look at our answers, why do you keep posting the questions?
In the meantime, the questions we ask you are ones that we do really want the answers to. Plus, they are not unanswered, but rather they are questions that you should be fully capable of answering. Questions like: "What are you talking about?" or "What do you think evolution is?" Simple questions that you really should be able to answer and yet you constantly refuse to answer those simple answerable questions.
ABE: {
A common feature of creationists constant attempts to stymie us with their "unanswerable" questions is that answering those questions requires extensive subject matter expertise which very few members of the general public possess. That means that you are deliberately targeting people who will not be able to answer your "questions".
Indeed, when we have seen creationists actively avoid subject matter experts (eg, in the ozone-layer claim, that creationist claimed have sought out the "experts" who could explain how heavy chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) molecules could get to the stratosphere, but instead of asking the real experts on atmospheric dynamics say at NOAA, the "experts" he chose were high volume air conditioning (HVAC) systems salesmen at a trade show -- seriously, that's exactly what he did!). And if they do encounter a subject matter expert, then they make sure to throw "unanswerable" questions at him that are outside his area of expertise. A clear and unambiguous demonstration of their deliberately calculated dishonesty.
And your own practice of that same grossly dishonest practice is duly noted, along with its deleterious effects on everything else you post on all subjects. IOW, your credibility is so low that you have hit rock bottom, and you have started to dig even lower.
And that does not even address what it would mean for someone who is NOT a subject matter expert to be unable to answer one of your "questions." You seem to believe that that would disprove "evolution" (ie, your strawman boogeyman that has nothing to do with evolution), whereas instead all it would mean was that that person lacked the required expertise.It would have absolutely no effect on whatever it is that you're opposing (you really do need to tell us what you think evolution is; ie, what the fuck are you talking about?) and it would do absolutely nothing to support your own position.
A few examples:
If you are unable to explain to us in detail exactly how the TCP/IP protocol suite works, would that prove that the Internet does not exist? Of course not, despite what you might believe!
If you are unable to explain to us in detail the complete build process for C, would that prove that computer applications written in C could not possibly exist let alone work. Of course not!
So just what the fuck do you think you are trying to accomplish with your stupid creationist deceptive tricks? What are you trying to accomplish with your lies and gross dishonesty?
Worse, just which god do you worship whom you can only serve with lies and deception? Christian doctrine identifies your god by the name of "Satan".
}
You fucking hypocrite! You have demonstrated that you know nothing about Christian doctrine, but if you did you would be very aware of how much Jesus hated you hypocrites.
Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
Zuc, you stated: "See, creationists have no clue about how to do actual scientific research into claims, so instead they misrepresent and create ridiculous strawmen to debunk and then go "AHAH! GOTCHA" like it means something." ***There are creation scientists. Educate me. Are you a theistic evolution? If you are, you believe in the Creator. If not, you must prove the origin of everything. Don't attempt to use God's creation for your own worldview. I will understand if you cannot answer about the origin of life.
What bullshit, here let's try this again, you made this statement:
Unless one believe the fairy tale that life and consciousness leached from a rock.
I said that's a strawman, I told you to prove me wrong and show me where any science shows this.
Your answer is a deflect and a challenge to somehow fit to your strawman understanding of things.
That's not how it works.
As it stands, you made a strawman, and I'm again telling you, go on, provide evidence for this statement, show me any science that shows this. If you can't or won't, then you're basically admitting you're just making shit up.
Why would I need to answer your questions when you can't even provide evidence for your own statements, I'm wasting my time here talking to someone who can't do anything but make strawman versions of something (In this case abiogenesis).
So again, the challenge here, provide any scientific text that agrees with your strawman of "consciousness leached from a rock"
That, or be honest and admit you have no idea what you're talking about.
Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
Zuc, you stated:
"Prove me wrong though, point to any scientific research that states consciousness and life leached from a rock."
***You are those one of those who claim that evolution is a fact. I am simply telling you that is bull----.
What evolutionists like to do is to start with what God has already created and then squeal evolution from that point forward.
All we witness is that humans reproduce humans; cats reproduce cats; and dogs reproduce dogs, etc.... just as Genesis stated. It has always been this way.
Evolution is simply a mind game for those who do not want to give thanks to their Creator.
Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
"Prove me wrong though, point to any scientific research that states consciousness and life leached from a rock." ***You are those one of those who claim that evolution is a fact. I am simply telling you that is bull----. What evolutionists like to do is to start with what God has already created and then squeal evolution from that point forward. All we witness is that humans reproduce humans; cats reproduce cats; and dogs reproduce dogs, etc.... just as Genesis stated. It has always been this way. Evolution is simply a mind game for those who do not want to give thanks to their Creator. Nothing points to evolution.
More deflection, let's try it again, I'll have to simplify it because you obviously don't understand the question, you said:
Unless one believe the fairy tale that life and consciousness leached from a rock.
This is your fairy tail, it has nothing to do with evolution or abiogenesis. Prove me wrong, show me any kind of scientific source that states this. If not, concede that no scientist claims this and this is just your own fabrication.
Maybe then we can move on and go in depth on some of your other bullshit, but not before you give an actual honest answer to this query about your statement.
Let me repeat it
Unless one believe the fairy tale that life and consciousness leached from a rock.
Show me a scientific source for this claim or concede that you can't.
Re:Candle3 Shows He Has No Clue What Evolution Is ... AGAIN
***You are those one of those who claim that evolution is a fact. I am simply telling you that is bull----.
You only say that because you believe in bullshit lies about what evolution is. You just proved that you have no clue what evolution is (see below), so how could you possibly be able to evaluate it?
Rather, it is creationism (not to be confused with Creation since creationism denies The Creation) that is complete and utter bullshit. Creation is nothing but lies because its mission is to replace The Creation with an imaginary contrary-to-reality world (eg, young earth) for which there is no evidence, so all they have to work with are LIES.
You are the purveyor of bullshit. Please pull your head out of your ass and LEARN SOMETHING!
As promised above, here is the iron-clad proof that you don't know diddley squat about evolution:
All we witness is that humans reproduce humans; cats reproduce cats; and dogs reproduce dogs, etc.... just as Genesis stated. It has always been this way.
You think that that is an argument against evolution, that a dog given birth to kittens would disprove evolution, but such an impossible event would not only disprove evolution but also almost everything we know about biology.
What you falsely claim that evolution teaches is the exact OPPOSITE of what evolution actually teaches.Evolution teaches that the offspring of any parents of a given species will still be of the same species. And even when a population evolves into a different species it will still be the same "kind" as its ancestors: You cannot evolve out of your clade (with clade being the closest thing we can think of to a creationist's "kind").
The only true thing that you say in your message is: "It has always been this way". So why do you insist on lying about it?
The fact that we cannot evolve out of our clade(s) is explained very well by Clint of Clint's Reptiles (a believing Christian and evolutionary biologist):
Watch it this time AND LEARN SOMETHING!.
An example would be the first population of mammals, which branched out and diversified into an enormous number of very different species, including dogs and cats and humans, ALL OF WHICH ARE STILL MAMMALS! Not only that, but we are still all amniotes (a more general group including reptiles) and tetrapods (possessing four limbs) and vertebrates (backbone) and chordates (spinal cord) and deuterostomes.
That is what evolution says and teaches regardless of your lies to the contrary. Why are you so willfully stupid that you cannot understand that?
Evolution is simply a mind game for those who do not want to give thanks to their Creator.
Christianity is simply a mind game for those who do not want to give thanks to Vishnu.
Evolution is science. Science works out how things work. You may as well denounce your phone's users manual for being anti-Christian because it doesn't tell you that your particular god and not other god must be worshipped in order for the phone to work. Probably a bad example since you would be stupid enough to think that if you didn't say the right prayers to your god then your phone won't work.
Does your willful idiocy know no bounds?
Nothing points to evolution.
All the evidence does point to evolution. You just don't know what evolution is, so you cannot understand the evidence.
Rather, nothing point to whatever stupid fake bullshit nonsense you misidentify (or just plain lie about) as "evolution".
Seriously, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Because nobody can make any sense out of the stupid bullshit you keep posting.
Now turn to, mister, and answer Zucadragon's question!
Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
Percy, you stated:
"You *do* realize that this contradicts what you said earlier about God giving us 6000 years to "find peace and happiness on our own." Or do you mean God gave us a hopeless task that he knew we would fail, perhaps so he could enjoy torturing us by making us scramble around fruitlessly seeking answers.
***It is a hopeless task; God already knew this. He is simply allowing all humans to come to this conclusion.
Look at the huge rift between liberals and conservative. Both side claim to be right.
Humans can never agree. There will always be bitter descension and fighting. Wars have taken a terrible toll on humanity.
After 6000 years of history humans will engage in a war that will nearly kill everyone.
Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 that if He delayed His coming any longer that no flesh (none) would survive.
Remember that Adam and Eve wanted to decide for themselves how to live their lives without God's guidance. They did not want God to have dominion over them.
And, that is the way it is today.
God has, from the beginning, worked with certain human down through the ages. These individuals were/are not forced to obey God and His laws; however, they choose to do so.
These individuals are His first fruits. They have access to God's Spirit. They will be in the first resurrection. They will rule with Christ in His kingdom.
Many of the elect have had to overcome their own sinful lusts and desires. And, sometimes it was not easy for them.
Hebrews 8:7-13 clearly states that God will put His laws in our minds and write them on our hearts. He will do this for everyone.
He has already done that for His elect. He will do the same for those who are still alive when Christ sets up His kingdom
The same will be done for those in the second resurrection.
Hebrews 8: 11 "None of them shall reach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them "
Peace can come when we all finally obey God's laws. We will become Spirit beings without our sinful desires. We will then in every case "treat others as we ourselves want to be treated "
Re: Re:Candle3 Shows He Has No Clue What Evolution Is ... AGAIN
Dwise, you wrote:
"Evolution is science. Science works out how things work. You may as well denounce your phone's users manual for being anti-Christian because it doesn't tell you that your particular god and not other god must be worshipped in order for the phone to work. Probably a bad example since you would be stupid enough to think that if you didn't say the right prayers to your god then your phone won't work. Does your willful idiocy know no bounds?"
***I could say the same things about your Idiocracy, but I have more tact than that.
The theory of evolution has not contributed to actual science in any way.
Evolution is nothing more than a misguided worldview.
Re: Re:Candle3 Shows He Has No Clue What Evolution Is ... AGAIN
The theory of evolution has not contributed to actual science in any way. Evolution is nothing more than a misguided worldview.
Since you know nothing about evolution, how could you possibly make such an assessment?
Exactly HOW did you determine that "The theory of evolution has not contributed to actual science in any way"?IN DETAIL!
Evolution is nothing more than a misguided worldview.
Evolution is not any kind of worldview, so your statement is complete and utter nonsense.
If you are not just idly lying yet again and actually believe that evolution is a worldview, then explain to us exactly how and why it is a world view, IN DETAIL!
Your refusal to answer that question will be evidence that even you know that you are lying your ass off.
Do your willful idiocy AND DELIBERATE MENDACITY know no bounds?
Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
Zuc, don't play dumb. If you do not believe that life and consciousness leached from a rock, that is fine and dandy with me I assume, no, I will state emphatically, that you have no idea how life started, if the Creator is left out of the equation. This is what I'm saying.
No no, this is what you believe evolutionary scientists believe, that's what the problem is.
Again, you keep deflecting from the challenge, which really makes you look dumb.
Show me a scientist that believes this, any scientific work will do.
You can't, because there is no scientist that believes this yet you for some reason think they do.
Hence, it's a strawman. And if you won't allow yourself to say "Yeah, I was wrong on that" and actually learn what science actually states. Then there is no point to answering any other question on the matter, because it is based on YOUR premise, your idea that scientists believe this.
So the quest for an answer continues.
Show me a scientists, a scientific text, a study, anything that shows that scientists believe what you say, if you do not, then you're dogmatically holding on to a lie. Why would I converse further with someone who lies to himself so vehemently?
It's so weird. Everyone gets stuff wrong, it's in fact a part of science to be pointed at mistakes and to correct them with all the information available.
But again and again, you keep holding on to a lie you don't have evidence for, namely that Unless one believe the fairy tale that life and consciousness leached from a rock.
Show me any scientist that believes this, and if not, admit you were wrong.
Everyone is wrong at times, that's a part of life, we're not all knowing, but again, just holding on to this false belief is you lying to yourself.
More deflection, let's try it again, I'll have to simplify it because you obviously don't understand the question, you said:
Unless one believe the fairy tale that life and consciousness leached from a rock. This is your fairy tail, it has nothing to do with evolution or abiogenesis. Prove me wrong, show me any kind of scientific source that states this. If not, concede that no scientist claims this and this is just your own fabrication.
Maybe then we can move on and go in depth on some of your other bullshit, but not before you give an actual honest answer to this query about your statement. Let me repeat it
Re: How the US Ranks on Female Mortality During Childbirth
Percy, you wrote:
"More secrets, huh. If God isn't telling anyone "how to achieve complete peace and happiness," how can you be sure he really knows? Let me guess. You learned it in the Bible."
*** What secrets are you talking about? Anyone can read the creation account. God told Adam and Eve that if they disobeyed Him that they would die.
You can read this for yourself.
The Bible does not contain secrets. A lot of verses are taken out of context, and some can be difficult to understand, but that helps us to dig deeper.
Isaiah 28:9-10 "Whom shall He teach knowledge? And whom will He make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts?
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.
Peter states that as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of The word in order to grow; so shall the newborn in Christ desire to understand.
It takes total commitment, and a willingness to change our long held beliefs when we learn differently.
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