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| Author | Topic: Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Phat Member Posts: 19115 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
Apparently, DJT has a peace plan, but his conditions are already being rejected by the GAZA leadership. It's amazing to me how any Hamas can even be left, but a few are apparently still in charge!
Leaders in Middle East and Europe welcome Trump's Gaza peace plan Some highlights:
European Council President Antonio Costa said he was "encouraged by Prime Minister Netanyahu's positive response" to the proposal. Wars are settled by the victors. The victims may never get their day in court, but at least the war *may* get settled and be over.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat |
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Phat Member Posts: 19115 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
DJT appears to be ever the political chameleon, courting one side and then another.
One difference that I see between Trump and Biden is that Biden would have likely more easily gotten on board with global censureship and discipline of Israeli actions, whereas Trump does not. (And yes, this is a necessary thing) However...
Shock in Gaza as Trump appears to welcome Hamas response to US peace plan BBC: The ball is clearly in Israels court now, but also depends on whether or not Hamas will stop fighting and Israel will stop killing, even if "justified" by treaty violations. Trump treats the negotiations like a business deal and ultimately supports Israel first, but Hamas is also responsible to step down from power and decision making. One can only hope for peace. The power rests with the United States and Israel...not Europe and not the United Nations.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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Phat Member Posts: 19115 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
Trump's peace plan is only two pages long, and in my mind, he always wants to be the "hero" in the media....but the reality is much more complex.
What are the key sticking points in Trump's Gaza peace plan? That from the BBC today.
BBC: You guys are right in showing proof that Israel is the protagonist and as we have discussed before, the responsibility for genocide starts and ends with Netanyahu.Netanyahu is, in a way, Israel's "Trump." As I have said before, Israel and the US hold military power. Even global condemnation is not enough to guide the peace process with the conservative administrations in power. I just hope that the killing stops. Trump flip-flops on his pronouncements. One week, he condemns Ukraine in the hope of currying favor with Putin. The following week or month, he encourages Ukraine to resist and regain all of its land. All that the guy wants is to be in the news as the leading deal-maker. I doubt that Trump will ever win the Nobel Peace Prize!When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
I said this back in September
quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kJvV8pJ1Zg This Corridor nation stretching along the Jordanian border to Kurdistan is absolutely accurate - not some crazy map drawn up by a malicious anti-Israel propagandist. Every other proposed nation - including the Alawite coastal state, is accurately drawn on this map. Israel really wanted to do this. Trump pissed on it. More examples of the United States stopping Israel from protecting minorities. More examples of economic ruin brought about by a United States interfering with the Middle East. A horrible example of not letting the people of the region settle their disputes and form alliances. Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
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Did Israeli and US leaks spoil plans for a Kurdish invasion from Iraq in Iran?
i24NEWS English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWNZ2WseGRM This is the only video on the super important story that has broken in the last week about the start of the war. The founer of the American Friends For Kurdistan was interviewed from Washington DC and he says the Kurds will still fight. Diliman AbdulKader is upset over the leaks collapsing the invasion, but his people are still going to be involved in toppling the murderous scumbags in Tehran. From a Times of Israel story based on report from the last Saturday of March, 2026 which was one week ago.
quote: Trump fucked the Kurds in Syria earlier this year, which actually also prevented a US troop buildup in Iraqi Kurdistan since there was no fucking way to logistically get there. From the Jerusalem Post:
quote: Another report on the story
quote: This story is totally related to the exact time, place, and events: Netanyahu said frustrated that Mossad promise it could instigate Iran uprising has fallen short | The Times of Israel This story was from the actual time of the Trump decision, not later reportsJust a moment... Now, one from now. It is of a different focus than the previous story
quote: God, we have some tremendous allies in the region. Too bad we keep fucking them over. History is developing https://en.wikipedia.org/...ir_campaign_in_Iranian_Kurdistan https://en.wikipedia.org/..._strikes_on_the_Kurdistan_Region I am honored to be a part of the same human race as the Great Kurdish people. The future could look very bright in the Middle East. Brighter than anywhere else, but the light from there will brighten the whole world. Stay with the precious Middle East people! Support the good people of the region!
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Phat Member Posts: 19115 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
In Message 317 You said this:
Rahvin writes: I'm 100% fine with saying Hamas are bad guys. I've said effectively that from the start, reality isn't black and white; the reasons are complicated, but they're doing unjustifiable bad things. That does not and cannot justify even greater larger-scale crimes by Israel. That was on 4/25/2024. Since then, more people have died, and we here in the US are involved in a broader war. Back then, Hamas was the "bad guys, and subsequent arguments centered on Iran as the sponsor (enabler) of the war against Israel from Hamas, the Houthis, and Hezbollah. Netanyahu got his way, and he and Trump aligned. What is your assessment of the path forward today, based on what you know from the news, the probable future, and the prospect of another unwinnable war in the Middle East?If you look carefully you will see that there is one thing and only one thing that causes unhappiness. The name of that thing is attachment. What is an attachment? An emotional state of clinging caused by the belief that without some particular thing or some person you cannot be happy.~Anthony de Mello God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who disbelieve, no amount of proof is sufficient. Ignatius of Loyola
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
You are responding to a post from April 5, 2024.
Israel did not get their hostages for about 18 more months. (often they will be killed prior to release, when some would be released) The United Nations violated the Geneva Conventions and prevented civilians from leaving the Gaza war zone. Hezbollah kept bombing Israel for 5 1/2 more months while Israel was begging them to stop. Netanyahu finally told the United Nations, in mid September, "We have had it" in response to Hezbollah. (Now we have a crypto right wing scumbag as mayor of New York actually threatening to use the police to arrest the same leader of our country's greatest ally - which is essentially a call for civil war, if you really think about it) Netanyahu was not getting his way back then. Perhaps you can say things "got worse before they got better" for Israel. (Netanyahu is not the issue) (Israel fighting for its very existence was the issue)
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
There was a 78 day bombing campaign, of Yugoslavia, by NATO.
Human Rights Watch documented civilian deaths - from NATO bombing - at 489 to 528, while everyone agrees the total is higher. Israel has been responding to Hezbollah starting a 2026 war on March 2. It has now been 125 days since the war started. It looks like the civilians killed by Israel are comparable to NATO killing over 500+ in 78 days before the surrender of Yugoslavia. Prove that wrong! If you can't, then admit that Israel is doing no worse, to civilians, in Lebanon, than the NATO operation did to Yugoslavian civilians. Then you should spend equal time attacking NATO.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
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We keep seeing accusations of the "right" in Israel being a bunch of blood hungry genocidalists.
Actually, the fast growing Orthodox population in Israel just want to peacefully study the Torah. They were the type that argued for a two state solution so "peace" could come. They are pretty much pacifists. They made arguments year, saying that the job of the Israel state should not be to engage in endless wars, but to have a homeland where Jews could flourish economically and then have a climate where Torah study can be funded and facilitated. They did not hope for Hamas and Hezbollah to wage endless war. Nobody blames the state of Israel for the wars in 2026. Even the "Ultra-Orthodox", in 2026, now know that war is a necessary evil for defense and survival. Inside Israel, there is no debate anymore. The "left" is dead in Israel because Israelis are on the ground - the actual field of play, and they know the facts on the ground. The "left" in the United States is making arguments from ignorance. Bill Clinton commented on how the "left" in the United States thinks Hamas is fighting for the Two State Solution and Israel is refusing, this the Gaza fight is against Israel refusing a Two State Solution. A message for the "left" in the United States: Please learn something
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Percy Member Posts: 23811 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 519: We keep seeing accusations of the "right" in Israel being a bunch of blood hungry genocidalists. Israel has killed over 55,000 civilians in Gaza. The phrase "blood hungry genocidalists" seems a good fit. --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
If you look at the population of Gaza, from the population figures at the start of every decade, then you will see it is probably the most growing population outside of Sub-Sahara Africa.
Israel has no chance to dent the population numbers, and does not want to. The fact that Hamas held hostages for a full 2 years might explain why a reasonable person would not see Israel as the one responsible for a war that lasted over two years. (I can actually count days, and I can tell who was the one refusing to surrender when the end result of a loosing side not surrendering is a result that brings high casualty numbers)
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Percy Member Posts: 23811 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 521: If you look at the population of Gaza, from the population figures at the start of every decade, then you will see it is probably the most growing population outside of Sub-Sahara Africa. But Israel's genocidal practices have caused a sharp drop in birth rate. The population of Gaza has dropped by about 10% since the conflict began, caused by the murder of 55,000 civilians and a precipitous drop in birth rate. Is that genocidal enough for you, or do require something more final solution-ish?
Israel has no chance to dent the population numbers,... This is simply false. See above.
...and does not want to. Have you asked yourself why Israel should prove so successful at doing something you think it doesn't want to do? Perhaps you should reconsider your premise that they do not want to do it. Netanyahu sure seems like that's exactly what he wants to do, and he has a great deal of support within Israel.
The fact that Hamas held hostages for a full 2 years might explain why a reasonable person would not see Israel as the one responsible for a war that lasted over two years. (I can actually count days, and I can tell who was the one refusing to surrender when the end result of a loosing side not surrendering is a result that brings high casualty numbers) You seem to be saying that Hamas's actions make genocide okay. Do you really believe that? --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Look at the Iraqi deaths in the very quick Operation Desert Storm 35 years ago.
Look at the Iraqi deaths in the Iraq-Iran WarLook at the Iranian deaths in the Iraq-Iran War. Nobody called that genocide. Did you know that the Iraq-Iran War was also a civil war between the Kurds and the central Iraqi government? Look at the Kurdish deaths after Hussein gassed Kurdistan's troop positions. It was such a high number of deaths that it forced Ayatollah Khomeini into a ceasefire and end to the war. We never called that a genocide. Iran killed 52,000 Iranian Kurds January 8-9, 2026. Where is the genocide accusation? Iran was behind the Hamas & Hezbollah attacks on Israel that started the October 7, 2023 war. Why is Iran not responsible for the 1,500 deaths on October 7? Or the 70,000 deaths during the Israel-Hamas Gaza War? What about Hezbollah attacking Israeli towns on October 8, 2023? That is not genocide? What about Hezbollah killing dozens of Arab Druze children on a playground in 2024? Not genocide? Israel finally gave Hezbollah a strong response AFTER the massacre of Arab Druze schoolchildren. But Israel is the genocide side, even though they did not start the war. If Israel's prosecution of the war was so brutal, then why didn't Hamas release the hostages? It is the law of supply and demand. Hamas could have given Israel what it demanded so Israel did not have to up the purchase. Hamas wanted more from Israel. Hamas wanted more war, more collateral damage. Surrender is what saves lives when one side is winning. A refusal to surrender and to give in to conditions prolongs the war and delays the inevitable. Hamas started the war. Hamas kept the war continuing. Israel attempted to force an early end to a war it neither asked for, nor deserved
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 3143 Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
I did an AI search and found AI that said that October 7, 2023 to December 31, 2023 war deaths were 22,185.
Operation Desert Storm took place over a period of around several days. The estimated Iraqi deaths were 20,000 to 50,000 during Operation Desert Storm. The two+ year Gaza War saw around 75,000 Gaza deaths. Israel is accused of a genocide, but Israel did not even start the war. Gaza held Israeli hostages for over two years, after a very violent and murderous cross border invasion. Israel actually allowed in 20,000 Gazans for work purposes, just prior to - and during - the Gaza government implementation of the October 7 invasion, killing, and hostage-taking. The government of Gaza refused to surrender and return the hostages. Israel had to fight a war to get the hostages back. A war with a nation that Israel previously occupied but then pulled out for peace - decades ago. Now Israel finally had to renew the occupation, and it was not the rocket attacks by the Gaza government that forced the reinvasion. It was the additional requirement to get the hostages back, on top of the Gaza government murdering the Israeli people again and again. The hostages were the straw that broke the camels back.
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Percy Member Posts: 23811 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
Your arguments remind me of the husband who after staying out late once again is berated by his wife. He responds, "Oh, yeah? Well you left your dirty dishes in the sink again." The fallacy here is that one has nothing to do with the other. One offense (dirty dishes) doesn't justify another (staying out late).
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. We can't support this. That is not who we are. Means are not justified simply because they help achieve a desired end. --Percy
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