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Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 151 of 378 (913449)
11-01-2023 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Phat
11-01-2023 4:17 AM


Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
Phat writes:
As for me, I have gotten angry at God (Jesus) a few times and realize that I did so.
Then you can't be forgiven and you're going to hell. According to that paragraph. Soz.
(But I'm sure you can ignore it, understanding that it's not something you need to believe is true because it's inconvenient, like having to give everything you own to the poor and follow Jesus.)

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 11-01-2023 4:17 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 11-01-2023 11:11 AM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 152 of 378 (913452)
11-01-2023 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Tangle
11-01-2023 5:02 AM


Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
The only defense that I have to your assertion is that few are willing to sacrifice so much comfort to follow their (alleged) Master. Which is likely what you wanted me to realize.
Non Believers don't get off the hook either, though. The problem with you guys is that you ....well, never mind. Electing a strong progressive and moral party is as impossible as taking care of the poor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Tangle, posted 11-01-2023 5:02 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Tangle, posted 11-01-2023 1:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 153 of 378 (913453)
11-01-2023 12:32 PM


Meanwhile, Back To The War
I put my book down long enough to check the depressing daily summary over at the BBC and at Al Jazeera. My thinking and feeling runs deep regarding the situation of the Mid East war and of war in general. According to the news, Israeli soldier casualties are light, but the humanitarian crises in Gaza is overshadowing all else and is real.
Being pro humanitarian is not being anti Israel...this is part of the ideological propagandist narrative being fed to us through the mass media. (By the way, I don't have a label for us and them.)
My belief is simply that our species was is and always has been involved in a battle internally. And I don't believe that calling out Nationalism and the Christian role in it is going against "Gods people." Palestine is also Gods people. So are the poor Slavic Russians who get force fed into Putin's war machine.
World War III is the global revolution that must happen. Materialism will be one of the casualties. So will organized religion. But its OK. We will survive, God willing.
Here is a summary from the media.
BBC:

  • In Gaza, phone and internet services are completely cut, the provider Paltel says
  • The BBC World Service is launching an emergency radio service for Gaza on MW 639kHz, daily at 1500GMT from Friday
    Hospitals: Just 13 hospitals left in the Palestinian enclave remain operational, out of 35 that existed before the conflict erupted on 7 October. The rest have either been damaged by strikes or forced to close due to a lack of supplies.
    Healthcare staff:Hospitals are operating with less than one-third of their normal staffing levels, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza. Meanwhile, 16 healthcare workers are estimated to have been killed while on duty and another 30 injured.
    Water: Yesterday, one out of Gaza's three water supply lines from Israel was restored for the first time since being cut off last month - though the amount being received has yet to be assessed.
    Electricity Gaza remains under a full electricity blackout, using backup generators to get by, after Israel halted both electricity and fuel on 11 October in a bid to cut off Hamas's supplies. Humanitarian aid entering Gaza since 21 October, via the Rafah crossing with Egypt, has not been allowed to include fuel for this reason.
    Aid trucks: Some 59 trucks carrying water, food and medicines entered Gaza yesterday - making it the largest convoy of aid to be delivered so far. In total, 217 trucks have entered the enclave so far but officials have consistently pointed out that Gaza used to receive around 500 of these trucks every day.
    Bakeries:Just one bakery run by the World Food Programme (WFP) and eight local Gazan ones remain operational, supplying bread to Palestinians. Hours-long queues are reported in front of them as a result, where the UN says people are exposed to airstrikes.

  • Time to meditate and pray.

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9533
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.6


    (2)
    Message 154 of 378 (913454)
    11-01-2023 1:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 152 by Phat
    11-01-2023 11:11 AM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    Phat writes:
    The only defense that I have to your assertion is that few are willing to sacrifice so much comfort to follow their (alleged) Master. Which is likely what you wanted me to realize.
    I guess you just don't believe what your book says then. Welcome to our club.
    Non Believers don't get off the hook either, though.
    There is no hook.
    The problem with you guys is that you ....well, never mind. Electing a strong progressive and moral party is as impossible as taking care of the poor.
    I've no idea why that's relevant to what we're talking about, but it's true that so long as half the America population behave like selfish and immoral arseholes led by corrupt billionaires it's going to be tough.

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 152 by Phat, posted 11-01-2023 11:11 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 155 by Phat, posted 11-04-2023 12:53 PM Tangle has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18389
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 155 of 378 (913481)
    11-04-2023 12:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 154 by Tangle
    11-01-2023 1:12 PM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    Tangle writes:
    I guess you just don't believe what your book says then. Welcome to our club.
    Is it wrong to be skeptical? A strong believer is always skeptical yet never doubts that GOD is real. This war is about more than religion, though a case could be made that both the US and Israel have had an alliance with the god on the dollar bill. In a big picture context, the "other side" has their own money and their own ideology and alliances.
    Here is the latest on the war:
    BBC:
    IDF spokesman Lt Col Jonathan Conricus has been giving more details on today’s strike on Jabalia in the Gaza Strip.
    He said the target, Ibrahim Biari, was a senior and important Hamas battalion commander. Conricus described him as “pivotal in the planning and execution of the Oct 7 attacks".
    Conricus said “multiple dozens” of Hamas fighters had been killed in a “vast underground tunnel complex” from where Biari was directing operations.
    He said the IDF had struck in-between buildings, targeting the tunnel complex underneath. The collapse of the tunnels, he said, had caused surrounding buildings to collapse. This, he said “cannot be avoided”.
    He said the attack had involved more than one bomb, but he did not elaborate.
    The IDF, he said, was looking into reports of “collateral damage” and “non-combatant casualties”.
    Conricus said northern Gaza was “the very heartland of Hamas”.

    How does one separate Hamas from Gaza? Israel can claim that their targets are military targets and are essentially the vast underground tunnel system built to shelter the government. In the meantime, the ordinary Palestinian people are the victims in this conflict.
    The conflict is not God vs God. It is power versus power. The conflict is marketed as the rights of one people versus the extermination of the other people. Both the U.S. and Russian have veto power on the U.N. security council. I have heard that Blinken proposed a cease fire (a pause) which Israel rejected, claiming that the hostages needed to be released first. My gut feeling is that the hostages are already casualties in this war.
    After all, where can the Hamas government hide them that isn't being blown up?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 154 by Tangle, posted 11-01-2023 1:12 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 156 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2023 1:08 PM Phat has replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9533
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.6


    Message 156 of 378 (913482)
    11-04-2023 1:08 PM
    Reply to: Message 155 by Phat
    11-04-2023 12:53 PM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    Phat writes:
    Is it wrong to be skeptical?
    You have the mind of a flee! Of course it's wrong to be skeptical of the Holy Spirit - that's what we're talking about remember? - it'll send you to hell. (According to your book.)

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 155 by Phat, posted 11-04-2023 12:53 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 157 by Phat, posted 11-04-2023 1:17 PM Tangle has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18389
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 157 of 378 (913483)
    11-04-2023 1:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 156 by Tangle
    11-04-2023 1:08 PM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    Lets say that you and I were shopkeepers in Gaza City. Our businesses may have blown up and our families are scattered. Would we be skeptical of the same Spirit which the Bible speaks of or would we be skeptical of the spirit marketed by our government, labeled as terrorists by the other side? Throwing the religious spirits away for a moment, where would we place our hope? Certainly not Israel. To whom would we look to for guidance? For hope? Can you imagine such a situation in a place where one grows up in war?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 156 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2023 1:08 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 158 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2023 1:52 PM Phat has replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9533
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.6


    Message 158 of 378 (913486)
    11-04-2023 1:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
    11-04-2023 1:17 PM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    All of that is irrelevant - if you're angry or skeptical of the Holy Spirit, you can not be forgiven. Period

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 157 by Phat, posted 11-04-2023 1:17 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 159 by Phat, posted 11-05-2023 7:10 AM Tangle has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18389
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 159 of 378 (913496)
    11-05-2023 7:10 AM
    Reply to: Message 158 by Tangle
    11-04-2023 1:52 PM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    IS this a religious war? Some Christians believe that it is, but those are mainly conservatives. My God would hear the prayer of Palestinians as well.
    The world is turning against Israel not for religious reasons but for war crime behavior.
    Al Jazeera, 11/05/23:

    • More than 50 people were killed in the Israeli bombing of al-Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza and the Jabalia camp in the enclave’s north.
    • Hamas’s military wing Qassam Brigades said its fighters killed five more Israeli soldiers in northern Gaza during intense fighting on Saturday. In a statement, it said Qassam forces “attacked a Zionist force holed up in a building northwest of Gaza City”.
    • The Israeli army has once again given civilians in the Gaza Strip a time window for Sunday to flee to the south of the coastal region. Traffic would be allowed on a southbound road between 10am and 2pm (08:00 GMT and 12:00 GMT) on Sunday, an Israeli army spokesperson wrote on the X platform, formerly Twitter, on Saturday evening. The army also published a map showing the designated road.
    • Qassam Brigades said on Saturday more than 60 hostages are missing after the latest Israeli air strikes on Gaza. Abu Obeida, spokesperson for the Brigades, also said on Hamas’s telegram account that 23 bodies of Israeli hostages were trapped under the rubble.
    • Many demonstrations continued to be held across the globe in support of Palestinians. Large protests were organised in Washington, London, Paris, Berlin and elsewhere on Saturday and Sunday. Demonstrators also rallied inside Israel, including outside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s home, to call for the release of captives in Gaza and for the prime minister to resign.
    • US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has rebuffed the calls for a Gaza ceasefire by Arab leaders. Jordanian and Egyptian leaders want an immediate ceasefire, but Blinken said he would back only a “humanitarian pause” to provide a window for supplies to come in and some civilians to get out. Blinken is set to meet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Sunday during his third diplomatic trip to the Middle East within a month.
    • The Palestinian foreign ministry has welcomed Turkey’s recalling of its ambassador to Israel for consultations due to the humanitarian situation in Gaza, calling it an “extension of Istanbul’s support for the rights and safety of our people”.

    Israel calls it a "just" war by "just" people vs animals.(Hamas) The world is starting to call it a giant war crime. It will be a delicate balancing act to protect Israel and not get involved, but our administration has already committed to back Israel morally and to a limited degree financially. If Iran and/or Hezbollah (Lebanon) get involved, the world is one step closer to World War III. Earlier, I predicted that Israel would suffer a large number of casualties in this conflict, and the media seems to agree.
    Analysis: Israel’s ground war in Gaza could get much bloodier
    Al Jazeera:
    The rise of social media means common citizens, rather than trained journalists, are often first on the scene of any significant event. While it is commendable that with the advent of civilians with media-capable mobile phones we have more material from warzones, we must be cautious in accepting for fact even what the videos and photographs purport to show.
    The number of misleading and erroneous claims, many made honestly and in good faith, has increased manifold, as has the volume of intentionally false claims supposedly originating from witnesses. A reporter or analyst has to judge the plausibility and veracity of claims made. Thousand of examples prove how the same video can have two sides. To illustrate the complexities of basing a testimony and explanation on a single scene or side,

    It is hard not to watch the news since I want to know what is going on, but I also think that social media and information in general often stirs up emotions in people thousands of miles away. The Palestinian people are most definitely feeling the effects of the war.
    So can one separate Hamas from Palestine(Gaza)?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 158 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2023 1:52 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 160 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2023 11:24 AM Phat has replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9533
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.6


    (1)
    Message 160 of 378 (913500)
    11-05-2023 11:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
    11-05-2023 7:10 AM


    Re: A Rabbit Trail About Religion and Zionism
    I have nothing to say about this war Phat except, fuck.
    You know if god made man in his own image, he's a total arse.

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 159 by Phat, posted 11-05-2023 7:10 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 161 by Phat, posted 11-06-2023 7:35 AM Tangle has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18389
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 161 of 378 (913502)
    11-06-2023 7:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 160 by Tangle
    11-05-2023 11:24 AM


    Pro Hamas Rallies???
    Upon observing a continuation of the ideological war...the early stirrings of WWIII in retrospect, a Pastor from Cali was censored on Facebook for speaking out against a Pro Hamas rally conducted in Washington DC. The American Church (charismatic/conservative leaning) has traditionally and always been for Israel. I see that as a simplistic and unthinking position. The church should be for peace and never for war.
    Christian Nationalism is more of a problem globally than it is a solution. I can now begin to see where AZ Paul3 has a problem with organized religion, though I am not prepared to agree that the Priests(Leaders) all lie. That itself sounds biased.
    I believe that Jesus exists eternally and will come back someday in bodily form.
    According to tradition, He came for the first time as a suffering Messiah. The second time He will come as a conquering Messiah. What most people don't get (Especially Jesus Red people) is that the war is spiritual...not physical. Jesus is not ever out to harm humans in any way. What He is fighting are ideologies, thoughts, and beliefs that go against His message. Israel and Palestine both have yet to meet Him.(on a National level). I am sure there are some Jewish people and some Palestinian people who already have met Him in their hearts and souls. It is too bad that these people are not running their own governments. That being said, Jesus is not nor will ever be a political leader.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 160 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2023 11:24 AM Tangle has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18389
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 162 of 378 (913511)
    11-08-2023 8:25 AM


    Double Post

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18389
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 163 of 378 (913512)
    11-08-2023 8:27 AM


    BBC Update: 11/8/2023
    From
    Message 8
    Tanypteryx:
    The latest attacks by Hamas were predictable and I am fine with every single one of the terrorist perpetrators being killed. The lives of Palestinians are atrocious and have been since Israel was formed in 1948. The Israelis have had all the power for more than 75 years and their policy has always seemed to be subjugation. This has also, ironically, forced all those terrorist organizations to hide among innocent blockaded Palestinians so Israeli retaliation always kills many innocents, further fueling hatred and future terrorist attacks.

    After 75 years maybe the Israelis should rethink their long-term strategy. Until they do, I don't support aid from the U.S.
    From what I hear, there are already two US Carrier Strike groups in the region and two more on the way. This war is a bloody mess! The Bible talks of wars and rumors of wars in Matthew 24:3. While I am cautious about interpreting all History through a Biblical lens, I dont rule it out either. My primary reason is because of what Jesus said over 2000 years ago and what the scripture could mean today.
    Let's peruse
    BBC:
    • Thousands more people have left northern Gaza for the south, the Israeli military says
    • A route was open for four hours today - the fifth consecutive day it has been in operation
    • For weeks, Israel has told people in the north of Gaza to head south, saying it is safer
    • But Hamas-run authorities say Israeli air strikes killed more than 100 people in the southern Gaza Strip in the past 24 hours
    • Earlier, the G7 group of nations - including the UK and US - called for "humanitarian pauses" in the fighting in Gaza (Pauses are not the same as a ceasefire - which Israel has ruled out while Hamas continues to hold Israeli hostages)
    • Israel began striking Gaza after the Hamas attacks on 7 October, which saw 1,400 people killed and more than 200 taken hostage
    • More than 10,500 people have been killed in Gaza according to the Hamas-run health ministry, including more than 4,300 children

    Again, I am not either pro or anti-Israel, and I am empathetic to the plight of the people of Gaza. Israel is over reacting due to its consensus that Hamas MUST be eliminated. Too many Palestinians will die in the process.

      
    Tanypteryx
    Member
    Posts: 4504
    From: Oregon, USA
    Joined: 08-27-2006
    Member Rating: 4.5


    Message 164 of 378 (913513)
    11-08-2023 12:07 PM


    I was watching the news this morning and they were showing Netanyahu talking to some Israeli soldiers and I noticed that all the soldiers had on fabric head covering that also had a face mask across the bottoms of their faces so only the eye region was exposed. Any ideas what the purpose of this part of their uniform is? What is it even called? Do the masks work to filter out the dust from concrete pulverized by bombs? That gray dust seems to coat everything in Gaza.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

    Replies to this message:
     Message 166 by Phat, posted 11-08-2023 5:46 PM Tanypteryx has replied

      
    Tanypteryx
    Member
    Posts: 4504
    From: Oregon, USA
    Joined: 08-27-2006
    Member Rating: 4.5


    Message 165 of 378 (913514)
    11-08-2023 12:08 PM


    Duplicate post

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
    One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

      
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