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Author Topic:   Atheists: Time to Come Out of the Closet!
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 106 of 174 (913897)
12-12-2023 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
12-11-2023 10:27 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Phat writes:
While I dont think that most people want just any god in their lives or church or religion, I think that most people would accept Jesus in their lives. As Percy and others have said before, sure we would if we were certain. Show us the evidence.

And I can respect that.
"For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.
So they are without excuse".
(Romans 1:19-20)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-11-2023 10:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 3:18 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 110 by Percy, posted 12-12-2023 10:59 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 107 of 174 (913898)
12-12-2023 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dredge
12-12-2023 1:52 AM


Re: Choose This Day
If this god of yours wishes to make his presence 'plain' why is he hiding?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dredge, posted 12-12-2023 1:52 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 5:40 AM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 108 of 174 (913899)
12-12-2023 5:40 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Tangle
12-12-2023 3:18 AM


Re: Choose This Day
I don't know about Dredge's god, but my version hides from you on purpose because he wants you to strive harder to find him rather than being arrogant enough to dismiss him and move on.
My God won't give up on you, though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 3:18 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 7:15 AM Phat has replied
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 12-12-2023 11:02 AM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 109 of 174 (913900)
12-12-2023 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
12-12-2023 5:40 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Phat writes:
I don't know about Dredge's god, but my version hides from you on purpose because he wants you to strive harder to find him rather than being arrogant enough to dismiss him and move on.

My God won't give up on you, though.
Does that make any kind of sense to you? Really? It doesn't to me it just sounds totally daft.
Wouldn't it make more sense if your god said "hi, I'm god, let's go fishing, I need a chat" instead of deciding to hide in even more inaccessible places?
I haven't dismissed this god of yours, he not there to dismiss. I haven't dismissed elves either - in my arrogance.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 5:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 11:47 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 110 of 174 (913902)
12-12-2023 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dredge
12-12-2023 1:52 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Dredge in Message 106 writes:
"For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.

So they are without excuse".
What is your excuse for not glorifying Allah or Jehovah or Buddha or Krishna or Amaterasu Okimaki or Waheguru?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dredge, posted 12-12-2023 1:52 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 111 of 174 (913903)
12-12-2023 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
12-12-2023 5:40 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Phat in Message 108 writes:
I don't know about Dredge's god, but my version hides from you on purpose because he wants you to strive harder to find him rather than being arrogant enough to dismiss him and move on.
What is the difference between a hidden God who never provides any hint of his existence, and a God who doesn't exist?
My God won't give up on you, though.
My Teddy Bear (yes, I still have him) won't give up on you, either.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 5:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 12:18 PM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 112 of 174 (913904)
12-12-2023 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Tangle
12-12-2023 7:15 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Fair enough, Tangle. You do know how to show me a rational perspective. I'm not going to misrepresent my God by hating on atheists...especially you. You actually might be more fun to go fishing with than some of the Christians I know!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 7:15 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 113 of 174 (913905)
12-12-2023 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Percy
12-12-2023 11:02 AM


Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
Percy writes:
My Teddy Bear (yes, I still have him) won't give up on you, either.
You actually think that Teddy Bear is more real than my God?(Jesus)
Dredge gets mad that nobody will believe his conversion experience, but I had one too and I quite expect nobody to believe it.
If the peanut gallery has taught me one thing, it is that my integrity is more important than some fanciful tale that I recite about the miracles I've seen.
Percy writes:
What is the difference between a hidden God who never provides any hint of his existence and a God who doesn't exist?
Ummmmm changed lives? I mean, isn't that the whole idea and reason for encouraging others and sharing the Gospel?(Good News) Dwise1 is not a believer but he uses stories and anecdotes of his personal experience to hopefully teach others.
He does not consciously try to teach, but his honesty and integrity go a long way.
I would assert that integrity is wholeness and not double-mindedness and that wholeness is best achieved through communion. Life is too short to hate on everyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 12-12-2023 11:02 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Percy, posted 12-12-2023 12:43 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 115 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 1:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 114 of 174 (913907)
12-12-2023 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
12-12-2023 12:18 PM


Re: Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
Phat writes:
Percy writes:
My Teddy Bear (yes, I still have him) won't give up on you, either.
You actually think that Teddy Bear is more real than my God?(Jesus)
I can post an image of my Teddy Bear. What can you provide as evidence?
Dredge gets mad that nobody will believe his conversion experience, but I had one too and I quite expect nobody to believe it.
That's because it's all in your head. Lot's of things happen in people's heads. They're not real.
Although you quoted me, I don't see how your response in any way addressed what I said: What is the difference between a hidden God who never provides any hint of his existence and a God who doesn't exist?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 12:18 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 115 of 174 (913910)
12-12-2023 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
12-12-2023 12:18 PM


Re: Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
Phat writes:
Dredge gets mad that nobody will believe his conversion experience, but I had one too and I quite expect nobody to believe it.
Why wouldn't we believe that you had a conversion experience? I'm sure you did. But it wasn't a real external thing - it's in your head. Millions of people believe all sorts of dumb things but they're all delusions.
People that blow themselves and others up 'shouting god is great' believe dumb things very, very devoutly. I don't doubt their beliefs; I doubt their sanity.
I don't get why you can't see this. After all there are millions who believe in a different god as firmly if not more firmly than you believe in the Jesus guy. You know they're wrong, just like we know that you're wrong. No difference at all.
It's not a difficult point to understand, but it defeats all believers in all religions.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 12:18 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 3:11 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 116 of 174 (913911)
12-12-2023 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Tangle
12-12-2023 1:12 PM


Re: Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
Tangle writes:
I don't get why you can't see this. After all, millions believe in a different god as firmly if not more firmly than you believe in the Jesus guy. You know they're wrong, just like we know that you're wrong. No difference at all.
Because Jesus is not a relative God. Jesus is not the same "spirit" that Vishnu is. There is only One Spirit. He has many names. Wonderful Counselor. Mighty God. Prince Of Peace.(If Jesus were born today He would be born in the rubble of Gaza) Jesus is, was, and always will be God's character. Accept no substitutes. Especially the collective known as humanity. Because humanity needs Jesus. Not religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 1:12 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-12-2023 3:33 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 118 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 5:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 119 by Percy, posted 12-13-2023 8:36 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 117 of 174 (913912)
12-12-2023 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
12-12-2023 3:11 PM


Re: Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
And all of them say the same thing. "I'm the best because I say so!"
Your lack of self awareness is typical, but astonishing anyway.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 3:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 118 of 174 (913913)
12-12-2023 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
12-12-2023 3:11 PM


Re: Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
Phat writes:
Because Jesus is not a relative God. Jesus is not the same "spirit" that Vishnu is. There is only One Spirit. He has many names. Wonderful Counselor. Mighty God. Prince Of Peace.(If Jesus were born today He would be born in the rubble of Gaza) Jesus is, was, and always will be God's character. Accept no substitutes. Especially the collective known as humanity. Because humanity needs Jesus. Not religion.
There's absolutely no difference between your belief in Jesus and a Muslim's belief in Mohammed (peace be upon him). None. None at all. It's exactly the same.
But you know it can't be don't you? Just exactly like they do. How do you explain that?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 3:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 119 of 174 (913922)
12-13-2023 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
12-12-2023 3:11 PM


Re: Integrity Goes Further Than Anecdotes
Wow! Talk about evading the issue.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-12-2023 3:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 120 of 174 (913923)
12-13-2023 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
12-06-2023 4:58 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Phat writes:
I think what you mean is that ultimate purpose is meaningless.
If the "ultimate purpose" of life is meaninglessness, then life is meaningless from beginning to end.
If eternal life did not exist, would it be any more appropriate for me to go over to Tannys house and wreck all of his dragonfly slides? Or step on his face? Or he step on mine?
If this life is all there is, doing evil things is as meaningless as doing good things in other words, morality is meaningless (yet It's interesting that many atheists become fanatical left-wing morality-warriors, which is really just a vain attempt to inject meaning into their meaningless lives).
Most atheists don't have the courage to accept the logical implication of their belief system - ie, the life of a human being is as meaningless as the life of a worm - so most atheists choose to delude themselves that their lives have meaning.
Let me ask you this.

If the world tore down every Cathedral, wrecked every statue, and arrested Pope Francis, would God be any less real?
The Catholic Church is the body of Christ. The body cannot be separated from the head, which is Christ.
Christ promised that his (Catholic) Church will never be destroyed (Matt 16:19). That promise doesn’t apply to non-Catholic "churches", bcoz all non-Catholic "churches" are fake churches, preaching fake Christianity to people who are too stupid or too mentally unstable or too intellectually dishonest to see the truth of Catholicism. One day, Christ will remove all false religion from the face of the earth - including your fake Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 12-06-2023 4:58 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Tangle, posted 12-13-2023 11:46 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 122 by Percy, posted 12-13-2023 4:58 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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