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Author Topic:   2024 US Presidential Election
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1022 of 1053 (918960)
06-10-2024 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1019 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 12:18 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1019:
I will turn my laptop on, and quote the recent CBS/YouGov poll, but you threaten to ban my posts, when I quote too much)
Please do not insert lengthy cut-n-pastes into posts. That will violate rule 6 and will cause post limits to be reinstated for you.
What I actually said:
Percy writes in Message 1018:
I'm going to ignore your poll numbers because you provide no links to verify them.
Please provide links to the information you provided. If it is lengthy, please do not cut-n-paste it into your message.
Regarding your content, you do not provide sufficient information to get more than a general idea of what you're referring to, and you provide no links, but I'm pretty certain you failed to understand the messages you're referring to.
Could you please try to keep your focus on this thread's topic.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1019 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 12:18 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1024 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 1:07 PM Percy has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1023 of 1053 (918961)
06-10-2024 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1020 by PaulK
06-10-2024 12:44 PM


Re: Immigration
The most recent poll is CBS/YouGov.
Old polls don't ask the right questions.
CBS/YouGov showed 70% of all Americans supported Biden's decision.
If Democrats were opposed as much as Republicans supported, then national support for turning around at the border would be 52% and that does not count the Biden-leaning independents support for turning immigrants around at the border WHO ARE SIMPLY FOLLOWING JOE BIDEN.
SUPPORT SHOULD BE 50-50, not 70 to 30.
As for deportation of existing undocumented immigrants, 62% if all Americans support it.
90% of Republicans (27%)
35% of Democrats (33%)
But, if Democrats were as opposed as Republicans support, then support would be between 53% and 54% (this does not count other groups who would be opposed if they felt a case was made against deportation)
Biden is an anti-immigration fraud.
True poison.
Like you, PaulK.
He poisoned the debate and made the difference in so many ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1020 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2024 12:44 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2024 1:26 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1024 of 1053 (918962)
06-10-2024 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1022 by Percy
06-10-2024 12:57 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
Why don't you quote the CBS/YouGov poll?
Because you don't know how to make an apples/apples comparison?
You still don't understand why I am not talking about LIBERALS when I cite DEMOCRATS answers?
Try harder. You will get it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1022 by Percy, posted 06-10-2024 12:57 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1027 by Percy, posted 06-10-2024 1:24 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1025 of 1053 (918963)
06-10-2024 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1021 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 12:52 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1021:
The Economist/You Gov Dec 2023 poll was the poll that asked about the Holocaust.
The Holocaust is not the topic of this thread. What I said was in reference to your problems with false insinuations and only mentioned an unspecified poll in passing as a supporting example. Please take your objections to that thread: Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Why is your "inflation" excuse somehow or off that voters are stupid?
This is grammatically unintelligible. I continue to suggest that you quote what you're responding to so that you do not misstate what people say. What I actually said was:
Percy writes in Message 1018:
It is unfortunate that what people believe counts more in elections than what is true, unfortunate because, as today's The Atlantic reports, The U.S. Economy Reaches Superstar Status.
...
The article surmises that prices resulting from inflation might be responsible for the pessimism.
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1021:
Now, he says I was the misleading one, due to his response on the Economist/YouGov poll . (I only - presently - said that only 16% of voters in the most recent poll - CBC/YouGov - though Biden would be better than Trump on personal finances)
That's not what I said either. I said I was going to ignore your poll numbers because you provided no links to verify them, and that last time I verified your poll numbers that you had provided misleading information, which you had.
How are voters stupid and ignorant to not be able to correctly consider Biden part of the problem?
What words would you use to describe someone who continually misstates and misrepresents what others say?
In the future, if you want me to look at your poll numbers, provide a link to the poll.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 12:52 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1026 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 1:19 PM Percy has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1026 of 1053 (918964)
06-10-2024 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1025 by Percy
06-10-2024 1:12 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
Why is your inflation excuse PROOF that voters are stupid?
(or off was spell check on my phone. Should be proof)
You said voters are stupid to not consider inflation makes Biden innocent.
Inflation = voters are stupid
Inflation = Biden deserves no blame
Inflation = Trump lies and is evil
Do I have your position, right?
(And all because you hate me for saying the CBS/YOU GOV poll shows 42% of all Americans say Trump is better for finances, and 16% say Biden is better)
(Hate away, because the poll is 33% Democrats, and 27% Republicans)
(Most Democrats don't have confidence in Biden, so hate them too)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1025 by Percy, posted 06-10-2024 1:12 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1030 by Percy, posted 06-10-2024 1:47 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1027 of 1053 (918965)
06-10-2024 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1024 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 1:07 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1024:
Why don't you quote the CBS/YouGov poll?
You're the one who's citing the poll. Provide a link.
Because you don't know how to make an apples/apples comparison?
Because it's your job to provide links to the information you're citing.
You still don't understand why I am not talking about LIBERALS when I cite DEMOCRATS answers?
Please try to get on topic. I think you might still be talking about the Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973. thread. If that's the case, please take the discussion to that thread.
We are understaffed here. I am the only active administrator. Admins are strongly discouraged from moderating threads in which they're participating. I have to recuse myself for two days before I can begin moderating a thread I'm participating in.
But I've been through this cycle with you several times now, and I think you're taking advantage of our administrative shorthandedness situation. If you continue to violate the Forum Guidelines I will simply take action right away. The rules you're violating the most:
  1. Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  2. Avoid lengthy cut-n-pastes. Introduce the point in your own words and provide a link to your source as a reference. If your source is not on-line you may contact the Site Administrator to have it made available on-line.
  3. Never include material not your own without attribution to the original source.
  4. Avoid any form of misrepresentation.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 1:07 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1028 of 1053 (918966)
06-10-2024 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1023 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 1:01 PM


Re: Immigration
Biden’s decision is to call a temporary halt whenever the system gets overloaded. That hardly erases the fact that Republicans and Trump are calling n for stronger measures - nor that they want the border to be in crisis to make anti-immigration a winning issue in their campaign.
quote:
If Democrats were opposed as much as Republicans supported, then national support for turning around at the border would be 52%
I understand that you want to confuse the issue to hide your real views but offering weird ideas on the way things “should be” is hardly going to do that.
It’s the Republicans and Trump who have poisoned the debate. And you - you seem proud of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 1:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1029 of 1053 (918967)
06-10-2024 1:27 PM


Moderator Action
LamarkNewAge's post limit has been set to 1 per week.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1030 of 1053 (918968)
06-10-2024 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 1:19 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1026:
Why is your inflation excuse PROOF that voters are stupid?
I never said anything like that.
You said voters are stupid to not consider inflation makes Biden innocent.
Inflation = voters are stupid
I've never even used the word "stupid" in this thread. I again suggest you quote what you're replying to so that you don't continually misrepresent what people say.
Inflation = Biden deserves no blame
The entire western world was hit with inflation after covid because they all racked up huge deficits dealing with the pandemic. Trump racked up huge covid-related deficits, too. The US has experienced much less inflation than the rest of the western world. I attribute this to economic forces whose magnitude and impact are difficult to measure and understand. The degree to which any president is responsible for the economic events that occur on his watch is difficult to judge.
Inflation = Trump lies and is evil
It is true that Trump lies (see In four years, President Trump made 30,573 false or misleading claims), has strong authoritarian tendencies, is racist, misogynistic and xenophobic, but I don't see how any of this ties into inflation, other than that he lies about that, too.
Do I have your position, right?
Read what I wrote and then answer your own question about whether you have my position right. What I don't understand is why you would make baldfaced lies about what I said given that my message containing what I actually said appears mere inches above yours.
(And all because you hate me for saying the CBS/YOU GOV poll shows 42% of all Americans say Trump is better for finances, and 16% say Biden is better)
(Hate away, because the poll is 33% Democrats, and 27% Republicans)
(Most Democrats don't have confidence in Biden, so hate them too)
I think you're back to a different thread again. You are very strange. We were discussing immigration when you went off the rails. Please return to that topic.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 1:19 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1031 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 2:41 PM Percy has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1031 of 1053 (918969)
06-10-2024 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1030 by Percy
06-10-2024 1:47 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
I guess this is my one last post, for a week.
So, I will respond, a bit to some of what PaulK said.
Biden's decision is PERMANENT. The congressional legislation he supported ENDS THE PAROLES you feel makes him so different from Trump (30,000 a month), and it is a PERMANENT turning around of asylum seekers. Biden set a cap of 2,500 asylum seekers a day. And that means that ALL asylum seekers are stopped THAT DAY & THE NEXT DAY & turned around at the border. It means THERE IS AN IMMIGRATION BAN the next day. And the border will be shut down even more days, if more than 1,500 humans seem asylum - at border check points - during the banned days.
This is a permanent change.
Trump's Title 42 only lasted a bit less than a year, though he said he would keep the temporary emergency BORDER TURN AROUND going longer, if he won reelection.
Biden campaigned against it, and this was the reason I voted for Biden. Also, he said he can take in "millions more" legal immigrants per year than the one million - in a campaign stop. I quoted it here, at the time.
Biden lied about just about everything.
Your Pew poll was new, and I assumed it was old. I was going to paraphrase the immigration answers on PEW and compare it to the CBS/YouGov poll, which I would also paraphrase. Pew always produces more "pro immigration" type answers,than other polls (except Gallup) and I suspect that there is some sort of subtle reasoning.
Questions to evangelical Christians produce very different answers - about acceptance of evolution - depending on what is asked prior to the acceptance of evolution question. (Polling is strange)
Percy:
Your inflation issue overlooks the actual situation. You seem obsessed with the headline inflation number. Voters are looking at alot more than the inflation of consumer products (excluding food and energy).
Voters know that high prices are something that predated Biden. They feel the political class should be tackling structural problems and I heard Adam Corolla and Bill Maher say the same thing. Both men also feel Democrats could eventually loose California to the Republicans due to the impossible situation - "You can't build anything" without costing a fortune. They talked about regulations killing people.
And, prices could come down a lot of all tariffs are ended. I was going to post on this issue. Experts know that carbon dioxide emissions would cease to be a problem if we brought in the cheapest Chinese EVs into our market. Biden hurt the environment and ALSO caused prices to be much higher.
Percy
You say Biden cannot do anything about prices. I can prove you are ignoring the basic reality of his policies. (Trump agrees with his policies on tariffs, so please spare me this crap that I am a Trump supporter)
For the record:
I disagree with Trump on Trade issues.
I disagree with Trump on immigration issues.
Immigration is irrelevant, when it comes to Trump, because he is not part of the party that claims to represent the pro immigration side
His trade policy hurt in a noticeable way, because Republicans were the free trade party (Obama was very Pro Free Trade, though he was unable to get new free trade deals through).
But Trump was at least honest about his damaging trade policy.
Unlike Biden on immigration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by Percy, posted 06-10-2024 1:47 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1032 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2024 3:11 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 1053 by Percy, posted 06-12-2024 1:52 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1032 of 1053 (918970)
06-10-2024 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1031 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 2:41 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
quote:
Biden's decision is PERMANENT.
Until it is reversed, as any President could do. But it is not the decision that I said was temporary, it was the shutting down of the border. And you agree that the shutdowns are temporary:
quote:
Biden set a cap of 2,500 asylum seekers a day. And that means that ALL asylum seekers are stopped THAT DAY & THE NEXT DAY & turned around at the border. It means THERE IS AN IMMIGRATION BAN the next day. And the border will be shut down even more days, if more than 1,500 humans seem asylum - at border check points - during the banned days
And the White House fact sheet states explicitly:
These actions are not permanent. They will be discontinued when the number of migrants who cross the border between ports of entry is low enough for America’s system to safely and effectively manage border operations.
quote:
Pew always produces more "pro immigration" type answers,than other polls (except Gallup) and I suspect that there is some sort of subtle reasoning
Which does not change the fact that Republicans are very much more in favour of deportation campaigns - and very much less in favour of providing any path for illegal immigrants to acquire legal status.
Again. Nobody who is pro-immigrant could possibly support Trump over Biden for that reason. Trump would be worse.
And you silliness about EVs is also foolish. Trump promised a 100% tariff on cars imported from Chinese plants in Mexico. Snopes has the claim:
Let me tell you something, to China, if you're listening, President Xi — and you and I are friends, but he understands the way I deal — those big, monster car-manufacturing plants that you're building in Mexico right now, and you think you're going to get that, you're going to not hire Americans, and you're going to sell the cars to us?
No, we're going to put a 100% tariff on every single car that comes across the line, and you're not going to be able to sell those cars if I get elected.…
Trump is also - and more importantly - opposed to wind energy. Going to EVs will not help much if the electricity comes from coal-burning power plants. MSN
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump generated headlines earlier this month when he promised to squelch offshore wind development on his first day back in office through an executive order…

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1031 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 2:41 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 3:46 PM PaulK has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1033 of 1053 (918971)
06-10-2024 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1032 by PaulK
06-10-2024 3:11 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
Looks like I can post again.
My posts seem to piss people off, so I will voluntarily stay away for one week, plus I will keep this last one VERY SHORT.
I do NOT agree that Biden allowing in 2,500 asylum seekers in, a day, counts as PRO IMMIGRATION. I think "allowing" in 900,000 prospective migrants a year (at most), is already a border "shut down". "And you agree that the shutdowns are temporary", is not going to get me to say that your post is anything but inaccurate.
And, you are wrong again when you say:
"Until it is reversed, as any President could do"
Biden supported LEGISLATION and one of the two houses of Congress agreed. The other house wanted a bit more from Biden, before it agreed. Do Biden made the change via executive order, and Biden wants congress to enshrine it into law. The opposition (which was not really opposition, just quibbles) will make less sense now, so expect legislation to get agreement - eventually.
Think of the immigration policy debate like the refusal of Hunter Biden to plead guilty:
He only agreed to plead guilty, so as to enshrine an agreement that he can't be charged with any other federal crime. So, when the judge refused to include the FOREVER BAN IN HUNTER GETTING FEDERAL CHARGES, Biden refused to plead guilty to the gun charges.
He will get no jail time, regardless, of whether he is found guilty or innocent. Plus he has a favorable hometown jury. He seems jury nullification.
He also wants it enshrined that he will never be charged again.
Joe Biden is using a reversible executive order to get a much tougher to reverse legislative change.
Hunter Biden is also hoping he can use the trial to get what he wants - a deal to be protected from future chargres.
Joe Biden serms to know what he is doing, sadly.
(Hunter might not be so slick, he opened the door to laptop testimony and cross examination of the FBI Special Agent - who admitted that the laptop probably was not tampered with, which hurts Joe Biden & helps Trump. But he feels like he has a better chance of a future federal prosecution ban. For some reason.)
I will cease and desist this post here. Get ready for Percy to say others don't understand... Anyone who disagrees with Percy just "...does not understand..."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2024 3:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1034 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2024 4:40 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 1039 by Taq, posted 06-11-2024 1:40 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 1041 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-11-2024 4:03 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


(4)
Message 1034 of 1053 (918972)
06-10-2024 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 3:46 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden
quote:
My posts seem to piss people off
I guess it’s the fact that your posts are full of hatred, dishonesty and hypocrisy.
quote:
I do NOT agree that Biden allowing in 2,500 asylum seekers in, a day, counts as PRO IMMIGRATION
Nobody says that it was. What I did point out is that it was not a permanent shutdown of the border - and you were fine with a temporary shutdown under Trump.
quote:
"And you agree that the shutdowns are temporary", is not going to get me to say that your post is anything but inaccurate
So you won’t admit to the truth - even though you’ve already agreed that I was correct.
quote:
And, you are wrong again when you say:

"Until it is reversed, as any President could do"
No, I’m right because it is an Executive Order.
Simply saying that you expect it to be enshrined in legislation doesn’t mean that it is - or ever will be.
quote:
Think of the immigration policy debate like the refusal of Hunter Biden to plead guilty
Because Republicans got the prosecution to renege on the deal. And that’s pretty much what happened with the legislation, too.
quote:
He only agreed to plead guilty, so as to enshrine an agreement that he can't be charged with any other federal crime. So, when the judge refused to include the FOREVER BAN IN HUNTER GETTING FEDERAL CHARGES, Biden refused to plead guilty to the gun charges.
Let us be clear, it was a ban on further federal charges from the evidence the authorities already had and was listed in the deal. Anything else - new evidence coming to light or new offences or even evidence not mentioned in the deal - wasn’t covered.
quote:
Joe Biden is using a reversible executive order to get a much tougher to reverse legislative change.
You say that but it’s simply something you say. There’s no indication of a new bill or that the Republicans would let it pass if there was. Don’t forget that the legislation was agreed with Republicans - who, of course - are anti-immigration. And Republicans at the time - including Trump called for Biden to close down the border INSTEAD of the provisions of the bill (which would have also funded expansion of the facilities to allow more migrants through).
I’ll repeat that. Trump called for an actual shutdown of the border. Biden has not gone that far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 3:46 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 1035 of 1053 (918973)
06-10-2024 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1014 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 10:58 AM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
Again, some basics.
The Stormy Daniels E. Jean Carroll successful suit against Donald Trump where he was found to have committed sexual assault and defamation of character has only one connection with what I posted; it is evidence that Donald Trump (not Joe Biden) is a convicted sex offender and guilty of repeatedly defaming a person.
That is what is called a fact.
Polls are simply polls and the only facts involved is the fact that the results of the poll were as reported. Beyond that they have no connection with reality.
Again, the reality is that it's likely Biden or Trump will get elected. The former is not a convicted sex offender or fraudster or manager of an organization convicted or 17 felonies or someone who has had to declare bankruptcy seven times so far. The latter is a convicted sex offender and fraudster and manager of an organization convicted or 17 felonies and someone who has had to declare bankruptcy seven times so far.
The former has been successful while the latter has been unable to make a success of sure winners like casinos and beauty pageants and reality TV shows. You can't be a much bigger loser than that. Well, maybe getting fined almost a half a billion dollars might be considered an even bigger loser.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1014 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 10:58 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1036 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-10-2024 8:06 PM jar has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 1036 of 1053 (918974)
06-10-2024 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1035 by jar
06-10-2024 7:28 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
The Stormy Daniels successful suit against Donald Trump where he was found to have committed sexual assault and defamation of character
I think you mean E. Jean Carroll rather than Stormy Daniels.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1035 by jar, posted 06-10-2024 7:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1037 by jar, posted 06-10-2024 8:18 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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