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Author Topic:   2024 US Presidential Election
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 61 of 1173 (911654)
07-21-2023 6:09 PM


GDR, of the two - Biden and Trump - which do you think behaves most like a Chritian?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
dwise1
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Posts: 5987
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 62 of 1173 (911656)
07-21-2023 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by GDR
07-21-2023 2:23 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
The New York Post had this headline ...
The New York Post is a tabloid owned by Murdoch, same as FOX News.
You can trust what they say as much as you can trust FOX News, which has been found in court (the Dominion lawsuit) to deliberately present massive lies to their audience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by GDR, posted 07-21-2023 2:23 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2023 12:56 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17853
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 63 of 1173 (911659)
07-22-2023 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by dwise1
07-21-2023 7:38 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
You can also note that GDR talks about the facts but he needs the hyperbolic statements - which is not justified by the facts - to be true. Even the presentation of the facts matters. They don’t deny that inflation was rising when Biden took office, nor do they identify a cause for the jump in April ‘21 (merely passing a bill is unlikely to be a cause - it needs to be put into effect and even then the impact will usually take time to show - Forbes take on the issue does not blame Biden).
That a partisan right-wing tabloid prints hyperbolic and unjustified negative opinions on Biden is not a good reason to believe that Biden is as narcissistic as Trump. But that is what GDR is arguing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by dwise1, posted 07-21-2023 7:38 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22695
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.6


(3)
Message 64 of 1173 (911662)
07-22-2023 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by GDR
07-21-2023 2:23 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
GDR writes:
The New York Post had this headline in this story. Biden’s economic lies show he’s either a deluded narcissist or a total fraud
Sure that is a right leaning paper but are the facts correct?
You know the rules. If you have a point to make then introduce the evidence and arguments into the thread and offer links only as supporting references. So tell us what the lies were and describe the evidence showing they were lies. My suspicion is that you're linking not to a news article but to an opinion column or editorial.
Percy writes:
But what Fox is saying about Biden is all innuendo because there are literally no facts out there yet. Maybe someday there will be, the Republicans certainly hope so, but so far they have to rely on innuendo and hope that listeners believe it's actually true.

And what CNN is saying about Trump is all true. It's not necessary to make up anything or cast aspersions and innuendo that have no support. Trump *has* been indicted for mishandling classified documents. Trump *has* been indicted for illegal business practices. Trump *is* under investigation for causing an insurrection and interfering with Congress in their execution of their duty to count the votes of the electoral college. Trump *is* under investigation in Georgia for interfering with their election. Trump *is* under investigation in New York State for manipulating property valuations for his own benefit. Republicans in Michigan *have* been indicted for creating a false slate of electors to confound the counting of electoral college votes. Arizona may follow suit. There is so much bad that is true about Trump that there is no need to make anything up, indeed not even any time to do so given that there is so much that is real already going on.
There's the issue. You contend that the Fox reports are all innuendo and reject them. Other folks see that the CNN report is fake news and reject its reports.
Is that what you think about the CNN articles, that they're fake news and you reject them? Are you really unaware that Trump was indicted for mishandling classified documents? It was all over the news from every outlet, both conservative and liberal. Where have you been?
Everything else I described, from the other indictments to the other investigations, is all true, reported by multiple news outlets, including conservative ones.
It is absurd to argue that its fake news that Trump has already been indicted in two jurisdictions, is under investigation in a couple others, and was successfully sued for defamation and is being sued again. Trump himself has trumpeted the news about his indictments at his campaign appearances and used them to solicit campaign donations. You must be a real chowderhead if you can't track down simple and obvious facts like these.
I have no doubt that you are far more informed on the issues than I am but it ain't easy to sort out fake news from the truth.
It isn't that you know less than me. It's that you're embracing lies. I thought your weirdness in the Choosing a faith thread was just a reflection of your religious faith, but it seems more likely now that it permeates all things for you. For you facts pale in the face of whichever of your personal beliefs they challenge.
As I said earlier, both our countries are unbelievably divided. Politics is simply a power game to see who can win, and carries a very thin veneer of the importance of policy that really is for the good on the nation.
And as I said earlier, there are facts on the ground. Find some. Just to help you out a bit, here's a link to the indictment of Trump in Florida for mishandling classified documents. Nauta is a Trump assistent who was also indicted: Trump/Nauta indictment. Here's an image of the first page:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by GDR, posted 07-21-2023 2:23 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by GDR, posted 07-22-2023 6:11 PM Percy has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6206
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 65 of 1173 (911667)
07-22-2023 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Percy
07-22-2023 7:25 AM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
Percy writes:
You know the rules. If you have a point to make then introduce the evidence and arguments into the thread and offer links only as supporting references. So tell us what the lies were and describe the evidence showing they were lies. My suspicion is that you're linking not to a news article but to an opinion column or editorial.
Look at the reports on the same story on Fox and CNN. You have to look twice to tell that they are both talking about the same event.
Yes, and I agree not to the length that Trump is, but I stand by my statement that Biden is a narcissist. It is obvious in his speech, and in his inability to answer questions. Frankly, he iis not aging well. He is not the man he was earlier. It is clearly time for h that he is not the man he was. and should step aside and allow someone more competent to run in 2024. (I think it will be forced on him anyway.)
However he isn't stepping aside because he likes being president which demonstrates to me that he is more focused on himself that he is on the country or even the party for that manner, which seems like a reasonable definition of someone who is a narcissist.
Now you can hold a different POV which is fine however I have to question if you are supporting the man our the Democratic party's policies.
Percy writes:
Is that what you think about the CNN articles, that they're fake news and you reject them? Are you really unaware that Trump was indicted for mishandling classified documents? It was all over the news from every outlet, both conservative and liberal. Where have you been?
We both know that Republican supporters consider CNN to post views slanted to support the democrats and Democrats feel the same way about Fox.
The real tragedy of all this is the gulf that is growing between the political camps. People are despised and negatively labelled for their political beliefs. There is very little civil discourse.
A good example of that is the divide that is growing between urban and rural populations. Look at that Aldean song that is casing such a furore. The song is taking a somewhat exaggerated look at rural values, while at the same time depicting an extreme view of urbanites. It actually is fairly accurate as far as depicting the divide that exists between the two cultures.
The same is true, although probably a littles less extreme in Canada.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Percy, posted 07-22-2023 7:25 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 07-22-2023 8:50 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 69 by marc9000, posted 07-22-2023 10:04 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 75 by PaulK, posted 07-23-2023 12:57 AM GDR has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22695
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 66 of 1173 (911669)
07-22-2023 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by GDR
07-22-2023 6:11 PM


The News About Biden and Trump
I think you've lost the plot, but before I put this back on track I'll address a couple things.
GDR writes:
Look at the reports on the same story on Fox and CNN.
Again, you know the rules. Describe stories from Fox and CNN that make your point, provide links as references. It's not other people's job to make your case for you. If you're really only talking about opinion pieces then everyone already knows opinions differ and there's no need for you to say anything.
Yes, and I agree not to the length that Trump is, but I stand by my statement that Biden is a narcissist.
I never commented about that. Take it up with other people. I only said that it was my guess that that headline was from an opinion piece and not a news article, but if it was actually hard news then it is your job to bring the information from that article into the thread, not other people's.
Getting back to how this discussion started, I said that Trump has a lot going on legally, and you said that that could also be said about Biden. But that isn't true, and I showed that it wasn't true by describing Trump's legal problems that we've all seen described in the news:
Percy in Message 55 writes:
And what CNN is saying about Trump [his legal problems] is all true. It's not necessary to make up anything or cast aspersions and innuendo that have no support. Trump *has* been indicted for mishandling classified documents. Trump *has* been indicted for illegal business practices. Trump *is* under investigation for causing an insurrection and interfering with Congress in their execution of their duty to count the votes of the electoral college. Trump *is* under investigation in Georgia for interfering with their election. Trump *is* under investigation in New York State for manipulating property valuations for his own benefit. Republicans in Michigan *have* been indicted for creating a false slate of electors to confound the counting of electoral college votes. Arizona may follow suit. There is so much bad that is true about Trump that there is no need to make anything up, indeed not even any time to do so given that there is so much that is real already going on.
Instead of acknowledging the fact that Trump has a lot going on legally and Biden doesn't, you replied:
GDR in Message 57 writes:
There's the issue. You contend that the Fox reports are all innuendo and reject them. Other folks see that the CNN report is fake news and reject its reports.
Fake news? Do you really not know that Trump has been criminally indicted in two jurisdictions, is under criminal investigation in a couple more, has lost a civil suit for sexual abuse and defamation and is facing another suit for defamation while president? I only mentioned CNN because that's the media outlet you mentioned, but these facts have been reported by scores of media outlets, both conservative and liberal, and Trump himself has talked about his legal entanglements publicly, posted to his social media site about it, talked about it at campaign appearances, and used it to solicit campaign donations. I even posted the first page of one the Trump indictments.
The facts on the ground are that Trump is facing a great many legal problems. The same is definitely not true of Biden. But if that's wrong then now is the time for you describe all Biden's legal entanglements. Good luck with that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by GDR, posted 07-22-2023 6:11 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by xongsmith, posted 07-22-2023 9:56 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(1)
Message 67 of 1173 (911671)
07-22-2023 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Percy
07-22-2023 8:50 PM


Re: The News About Biden and Trump
As has been said elsewhere, if one position is based on fact and the other contrary position is based on innuendo,
there is no middle position where both sides can meet, there is no compromise.
One side is correct, the other is just lies.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 07-22-2023 8:50 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 68 of 1173 (911672)
07-22-2023 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
07-14-2023 2:56 PM


Re: The Ten Worst States for Quality of Life
CNBC today ran an article about The Ten Worst States for Quality of Life. It rated all the states according to how good they were to live and work in, which included factors like crime, environmental quality, health care, childcare, discrimination, voting rights and reproductive rights. Here they are in ascending order from worst to least worst, and I include CNBC's point score. I also include who they voted for in 2020. I don't expect there are any surprises:

State Points 2020 Vote
Texas 53 Trump
Oklahoma 75 Trump
Louisiana 76 Trump
South Carolina 86 Trump
Alabama 86 Trump
Missouri 98 Trump
Indiana 113 Trump
Tennessee 115 Trump
Arkansas 118 Trump
Florida 129 Trump
And yet four of those states, for the first time according to Bloomberg, have surpassed the entire northeast - DC to NY / Boston corridor in GDP output. It became true in 2021, and keeps expanding.
New data show six Southern states now contribute more to GDP than the entire Northeast | Washington Examiner
It's also true that all 10 of those states are among the most affected by illegal immigration.
If someone had asked me to guess which state was worst I would have said Louisiana.
And if someone would have asked me I'd have said CALIFORNIA, since it's losing population on the same level as Illinois and New York. Residents are fleeing those states and MOVING TO the states on CNBC's list. It's probably true that "environmental quality, healthcare, childcare", liberal proclamations on "discrimination" special voting rights for the non-productive, and of course abortion might be better in California, NY and Illinois. But their sky high taxes, cost of living, and crime and drug and homeless problems in their Democrat run cities make "worst states to live in" subject to different opinions.
https://www.bizpacreview.com/...st-states-to-live-in-1379317
It's true that Texas and Florida have their challenges however - in addition to illegal immigration, many Californians are fleeing to Texas, expecting to get the same free stuff they get in California, only at a much cheaper price. Same with New Yorkers moving to Florida.
The different opinions of CNBC's list will be neatly divided along political lines of course. The question is, how will swing voters feel about that? ABC World News Tonight hasn't trumpeted that list. Maybe they're a little nervous about how swing voters might feel.
Will this article backfire on the liberal news media?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 07-14-2023 2:56 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by xongsmith, posted 07-22-2023 10:07 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 76 by Percy, posted 07-23-2023 8:10 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 69 of 1173 (911674)
07-22-2023 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by GDR
07-22-2023 6:11 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
A good example of that is the divide that is growing between urban and rural populations. Look at that Aldean song that is casing such a furore. The song is taking a somewhat exaggerated look at rural values, while at the same time depicting an extreme view of urbanites. It actually is fairly accurate as far as depicting the divide that exists between the two cultures.
Hello GDR, the biggest cause of all the controversy about that song is the way its video shows footage of inner-city rioting in Democrat run cites over the past several years, BLM riots etc. Most people haven't seen much, if any of that, because the mainstream media has always covered it up. They don't want any attention drawn to that now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by GDR, posted 07-22-2023 6:11 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2023 10:34 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 74 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2023 11:14 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 07-23-2023 8:31 AM marc9000 has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(2)
Message 70 of 1173 (911675)
07-22-2023 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by marc9000
07-22-2023 9:59 PM


Re: The Ten Worst States for Quality of Life
it does explain Georgia becoming Bluer every day.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by marc9000, posted 07-22-2023 9:59 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by marc9000, posted 07-22-2023 10:15 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 71 of 1173 (911676)
07-22-2023 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by xongsmith
07-22-2023 10:07 PM


Re: The Ten Worst States for Quality of Life
it does explain Georgia becoming Bluer every day.
It's a red state. The Atlanta politics and ghettos demolish the vote of the rest of the state.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by xongsmith, posted 07-22-2023 10:07 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2023 10:42 PM marc9000 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 72 of 1173 (911677)
07-22-2023 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by marc9000
07-22-2023 10:04 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
Most people haven't seen much, if any of that, because the mainstream media has always covered it up.
Oh bullshit, marc. I was here. I saw the major national coverage and a lot of the side stuff. The riots, by both protesters and police (Proud Boys+) were shown up close and personal. We remember the unidentified, untagged, unbadged ranks of uniformed police charging the walking peaceful protesters. We remember the 75 year-old manhandled by police while he stood passively on the walk. We remember the cops slashing tires in far off car lots where protesters may have parked. Didn't care when they were wrong.
It was all over the news everywhere for all to see, live and in color.
because the mainstream media has always covered it up.
You lie so easily.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by marc9000, posted 07-22-2023 10:04 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 73 of 1173 (911678)
07-22-2023 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by marc9000
07-22-2023 10:15 PM


Re: The Ten Worst States for Quality of Life
It's a red state.
No, it's a blue state, bunkie boy. Total vote in the state is the only measure. The voice of the people, marc. Apparently no one cares about your outlier redneck Trump-sucker backwoods inbreds.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by marc9000, posted 07-22-2023 10:15 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by marc9000, posted 07-23-2023 3:55 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 74 of 1173 (911679)
07-22-2023 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by marc9000
07-22-2023 10:04 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
They don't want any attention drawn to that now.
The song is just there for the hate. It is not meant to enlighten or explain. It is there to rile rightist white-power pride and racism. Probably make a lot of money for guns and more rightist propaganda vids. It is the right-wing fascists trying to assert their power over the society inflaming hate and bigotry.
There is an election coming up. We can expect to see more of this drivel from you these next months. By default, any position you put forward or innuendo or "fact" you cite, is considered false, bogus, until verified.
You lie too easily.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by marc9000, posted 07-22-2023 10:04 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17853
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 75 of 1173 (911681)
07-23-2023 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by GDR
07-22-2023 6:11 PM


Re: A Clarification on the Trump Rape of Jean Carroll
quote:
Yes, and I agree not to the length that Trump is, but I stand by my statement that Biden is a narcissist. It is obvious in his speech, and in his inability to answer questions
It sounds like you have no idea of what “narcissist” means. One of the reasons Trump is called a narcissist - and the most obvious one - is his constant boasting. Does Biden do that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by GDR, posted 07-22-2023 6:11 PM GDR has not replied

  
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