Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response: A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief. Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty. Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness. There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege. And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down. So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that: • Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are. • You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man. This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump. And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. #Donald Trump
The Parody Project set it to music:
quote:The lyrics for this song are based on an article about Trump, written by British journalist, Nate White. I pushed his prose around, added some words for rhyming purposes and did my best to turn it into a song lyric, hopefully without damaging it. Executive Producers Don Caron and Jerry Pender
I have finally decided not to vote for Donald Trump but take offense to the idea that conservatives themselves should be rejected and scorned. There are some advantages for conservative ideas.
I have finally decided not to vote for Donald Trump but take offense to the idea that conservatives themselves should be rejected and scorned.
I 100% agree. I'm very much to the left of center, but there are many conservatives that I have respected over the years even if I disagreed with their policies (e.g. John McCain). You can both respect a person and disagree with them.
Trump isn't a conservative.
There are some advantages for conservative ideas.
Absolutely. For example, increasing domestic oil production is a good idea. If we are going to use oil it is best that we produce it.
I have finally decided not to vote for Donald Trump but take offense to the idea that conservatives themselves should be rejected and scorned. There are some advantages for conservative ideas.
Conservatism is a legitimate political viewpoint, but conservatism in America has been taken over by MAGA. The recent scorn and revulsion directed at conservatism is not meant for traditional conservatism but for conservatism as it has been redefined by MAGA.
If you'd like to understand what conservatism was like before Trump then talk to Liz Cheney or her father the former VP or Adam Kinzinger.
I have finally decided not to vote for Donald Trump but take offense to the idea that conservatives themselves should be rejected and scorned. There are some advantages for conservative ideas.
I doubt anyone here equates 'conservative' with what Trump and his right wing demographic represent.
Trump does not represent what republicanism is, he's hijacked it for his own purposes and created a country-wide division. Just like he's piggy-backed right wing "Christianity" (which is anything but).
Please don't change your mind again.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
Trump just recently backed out of any future debates, because in his view, he won the debate, so he needs no further debates.
This only shows how broken his character is, because he clearly lost. It wasn't that Harris had a huge win or anything either, but it shows a character flaw in Trump, namely that he can never see himself as the loser, as someone who has flaws or makes mistakes.
He flees from any further confrontation because to him, that means he can keep pretending he won that debate, because if he'd lose a second time, that would become significantly harder.
It comes back to a point I think I might've talked about earlier in this thread or someplace else, namely that there are no instances of Trump ever admitting he doesn't know something, is wrong or made a mistake. He will always try to twist things, distract from a situation or just make up stuff to push himself as the winner of any situation.
One point in the debate that really struck out to me, was the confrontation with him and the January 6th situation. Though before, he'd call the people that were convicted heroes that he'd pardon if he became president, in this case, he instead threw them all under the buss. He knew nothing of it, he wasn't aware this was going to happen, he denied any kind of responsibility.
It should really give a signal to anyone following Trump that no matter how much he praises someone, he only praises them when they are helping him. If that help later turns out to be a detriment to his plan, he has no problem just flip flopping and throwing those people into the dirt in order to save himself.
When the ship sinks, the captain is nowhere to be found on board in this case.
It really shows that he doesn't care for anyone who isn't useful, even if there are plenty of examples of that. Elon Musk is a recent example, before, Elon Musk was someone he considered a lowly pawn, someone who would beg to him for scraps.
Then Elon donated a lot of money and a lot of positive (Though increasingly insane) attention towards him and his campaign, and suddenly, Elon is a visionary , a very intelligent guy who obviously knows right from wrong.
It's weird, because people can say a slight shift in Harris from no fracking to yet to fracking can be a big deal, but they don't look at Elon and go 'hmmmm, he hated Elon before, like, thought Elon was dirt under his shoe, but now Elon is a part of his inner circle' and see the disconnect there, they just accept it.
This sort of thing happened in the last election and the one before that as well, where opponents of his were dragged through the mud until they bent the knee, and suddenly, they were good people. US politics is insane.
I have finally decided not to vote for Donald Trump but take offense to the idea that conservatives themselves should be rejected and scorned.
As others have said, this isn't about conservatism. It's about Trumpism.
I listen to conservative ideas. I often disagree, but I do listen. Back in the day, I used to regularly tune into Bill Buckley's "Firing Line". I often disagreed with Buckley, but it was worth listening too.
Here's a saying that I picked up from conservatives:
Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me
It makes a good point.
But now we see conservative evangelicals who have been fooled twice by Trump, and they are lining up to be fooled a third time. That isn't conservatism. That's gullibility.
And to be clear, I am not saying that all conservative evangelicals are gullible. I know that some are very sensible people. But there does appear to be too much gullibility in that group.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
One point in the debate that really struck out to me, was the confrontation with him and the January 6th situation. Though before, he'd call the people that were convicted heroes that he'd pardon if he became president, in this case, he instead threw them all under the buss. He knew nothing of it, he wasn't aware this was going to happen, he denied any kind of responsibility.
It makes me wonder if there isn't some parallel universe where Hitler survived as was tried in the Nuremburg trials. I could imagine him saying the same thing: "They just asked me to make a speech, that's it. It wasn't my fault."
Now Trump is promising mass deportations of legal immigrants - because of the lies of the far Right. Haitians from Springfield, Ohio and Venezuelans from Aurora, Colorado.
If elected I promise the mass deportation of MAGA supporters to Russia where they'll have a leader they feel comfortable with and where they can help wipe Ukraine off the map before moving on to the rest of Europe. This includes Trump, Clarence Thomas, Samual Alito, Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Green and Lindsey Graham. I will empty our jails of all the January 6th rioters and send them, too. Write me in.
More seriously, I don't think we have any Trump supporters on the thread at the moment, but your man is seriously nuts and believes you can be convinced to become as nuts as he is.
More seriously, I don't think we have any Trump supporters on the thread at the moment...
Isn't that the way you like it? I have unburdened myself of having discussions with those plagued with TDS, but if KR comes back I will communicate with him. Only with him.
When Trump first got elected, I really didnt like him. I voted for Hillary back then mainly because of my sister, though I went against a large portion of the conservative church at that time. The main talking points as to why to support Trump have not changed over the years from the conservative church viewpoint. Abortion, the repeal of Roe v Wade, Societal breakdown in areas of gender identity and expression, and overall moral decline were the main arguments being emphasized.
One area of concern for me was the whole idea of helping the world at the personal expense of a declining middle and working class caste within the United States. I personally was struggling to make ends meet and felt that the whole idea of helping the poor impoverished masses should not be a government mandate but, rather, should be the decision of the individual. I supported less government and less bureaucracy and found myself siding with Trump after the January 6th debacle and was puzzled by the groundswell of indignation from the progressive and traditional Democratic majority. In a way, I think I began to identify with the underdog narrative and found myself targeting an entire political movement as if it were anti-christian. Percy could well be right that my erratic blood sugars played a role in my delusional state, but as my blood sugars have dropped recently, I feel the fog lifting. (Im rather glad that Theo is still tough on me, for I am only now understanding his cynicism as a helpful trait)
So my sister is back in town and just in the nick of time! There was a fire in my building that destroyed a condominium down the hall and released potential asbestos contamination throughout our building. We all were forced to evacuate and I suddenly found myself homeless (for a week) My condo was undamaged but I was prohibited from living there. Fortunately, my sister took me in as she had just arrived in town, and I also received assistance from the Red Cross (notably not from any church)
So I have been doing a lot of thinking and reasoning as to why I have endured so much stress in life and yet have been so blessed despite my challenges. Were it not for the Democratic state in which I live, I never would have received any assistance from anyone.
The debate between Harris and Trump was the deal breaker. I saw a different Trump than I had seen during his many rally's with his supporters. I finally threw away my preconceived notions in my head about a man of destiny protected by God and saw, rather, an angry and bitter old man who grasped at straws and had no plan that did not in some way involve hate and bitterness toward entire groups of people. In Harris, I saw a woman who was entirely unlike the socialist liberal portrayed (again)by the propaganda voiced by the Trump campaign. I saw an intelligent woman with a heart who had solid answers and who made Trump out to be a senile and bitter old man, much as I had become (unknowingly until that revelation) and in essence realized that the media Emperor wore no clothes!
Im not saying that a Harris victory will make America great again, and I do honestly think that we will go through some major financial turmoil in the coming year but I also feel that supporting her will unify my heart with the people rather than divide me and cause my heart to be divided and bitter. As a Christian, I also feel that this is the right course of action for me to take and goes against mainstream Christian thought. For me, this seems like the right decision and I feel as if God is somehow on my side. The haters will hate, but I no longer feel as if I am one of them.
In conclusion, I am not trying to be a progressive butI think I am making progress towards peace of mind.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added a blank line after first paragraph (being easily annoyed).
This is the Phat I have known through the years. Nice to see you thinking again. We will never agree on a lot of things, but we can respect each other's ideas.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
The main talking points as to why to support Trump have not changed over the years from the conservative church viewpoint. Abortion, the repeal of Roe v Wade, Societal breakdown in areas of gender identity and expression, and overall moral decline were the main arguments being emphasized.
The conservative Church is wrong about much of this.
On abortion -- Personally, I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice. By "anti-abortion", I mean that I do not think abortion should be used as a method of birth control. But I'm pro-choice, because it is not the government's job to police this. We have seen cases of women needing an abortion to protect their own health, yet having it denied. This is wrong. Let the woman and her physicians make these decisions.
On societal breakdown -- I'm not seeing any breakdown. I disagree with some of the gender identity activists. Women should be allowed to have their own sports and their own private places without "trans women" intruding. But, overall, I'm not seeing any evidence of societal breakdown. For sure there have been changes that conservatives might not like. But there hasn't been any breakdown.
On moral decline -- As far as I can tell, there has been as much moral decline within the church as outside of it. But maybe it's just that we are more open these days, and the immorality isn't hidden as well as it used to be. I'm still puzzled that people who claim to be concerned about moral issues are planning to vote for the grossly amoral Trump.
On helping the world -- We really aren't doing that. If you look at the help the US government gives, it is really about what benefits us.
We all benefit when we can help each other. You experienced some of this with the fire in your condo building.
... and saw, rather, an angry and bitter old man who grasped at straws and had no plan that did not in some way involve hate and bitterness toward entire groups of people.
That's a good description of Trump.
In Harris, I saw a woman who was entirely unlike the socialist liberal portrayed (again)by the propaganda voiced by the Trump campaign.
Most liberals are the kind of people you would like to have as a neighbor; the kind of people who would help you in a time of need. The political right paint a false picture of liberals. Sure, there are some on the political left who go too far. But most are decent people.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
I have unburdened myself of having discussions with those plagued with TDS, but if KR comes back I will communicate with him. Only with him.
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