Winter: Baby, It's Cold Outside!

I would consider laws prohibiting things like murder and robbery to be non-authoritarian. Most people overwhelmingly agree with laws like that. It goes back to what I said about tradition and common sense. If you think laws against murder and robbery are authoritarian because they take away personal freedoms of murderers and robbers, that's fine, we then have nothing more to discuss. Is that what the Bob Altemeyer book said that Dwise1 referenced? Have you read it?

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Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams

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John Adams Quotes About Morality | A-Z QuotesHow well morality works in a society can be confirmed by history. For some people, it's common sense. Especially people from Adam's day, who experienced, or heard about first hand, government tyranny and oppression. Or some people today like myself, who have actually picked up a history book. The further and further we get from U.S. foundings, the more people there are who take for granted the U.S. way of life, and play into the hands of wannabe / future tyrants.

This is where climate change alarmists always stop. They never specifically name solutions.

Marc9k writes: Migosh child! Have you sleeping under a rock?Solar powered charging stations for electric cars has been named for decades.

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This is where climate change alarmists always stop. They never specifically name solutions.

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...are you kidding?The primary mitigation against climate change is the move away from fossil fuels. Not just consumer vehicles, but power generation, freight, industrial use, etc.The solution is wind, solar, hydro, and nuclear. Nuclear would have been better a decade or two ago; now, it takes so long to construct new nuclear plants that it's unlikely to help. Hydro power is similar, it takes a while to build dams. Wind and solar are the best current solutions, and there are technological advances being made that may play a significant role as well.Reducing greenhouse emissions mitigates the greenhouse-related global average temperature increase.And because it's already too late to prevent all of the effects of climate change, we need to evaluate natural disaster planning. 100-year storms are now going to happen a lot more often than 100 years. Levies need to be reinforced, in some cases raised. Areas that are currently above sea level need to start planning for the near future, when they will be below sea level.I could go on. The US Dept of Defense has quite literally identified climate change as the biggest threat to US national security for years now, and has been planning accordingly. Tomorrow's wars will be fought over water resources. The US military has been planning to roll out electric Humvees (not actually Hummers, but same role) and tanks. Yes, electric tanks.People have been literally screaming specific solutions for decades. Did you fall and hit your head?
But this is stuff that's talked about literally all the time.

He's a disinformation troll who wants to see the world burn.

Didn't you see the specific solutions when you quoted them?
1. Sell less petroleum products.
2. Sell fewer gas-guzzling cars.

You cant very well mandate electric vehicles when your blessed poor people cannot afford them. And passing the expense on to the next class up only brings that class down.

Has there been a mandate? Any mandate? Market forces are driving the change. Why are you so anti-free market?
There are electric cars comparably priced to ICE cars, and more every year.

There are no cheap used ones. The working class cannot afford new cars.

There are EV's under 30k, brand new. This is the same prices as ICE competitors.
They will only become more affordable as the tech and manufacturing matures.You also should factor in the cost over the period of ownership which is much lower for EV's. There's a pretty cool article over at Car & Driver. Here is there bottom line cost for 3 years of ownership:

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Hyundai Kona: $19,385

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Hyundai Kona Electric: $21,426

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Ford F-150: $26,505

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Ford F-150 Lightning: $23,840

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This factors in all costs, from maintenance to fuel to resell value. The cost of ownership is close to the same. Sometimes the EV wins, sometimes the ICE wins, but it's close.

Again you deflect. Answer the question or admit you are spouting shit again. What mandate?
Do you truly think once the market matures there will not be used electric cars for sale? Are there any cheap used ICE cars less than 5 years old?
You are radically anti-freemarket.

What specifically are you talking about?Are you claiming that seeking to phase out internal combustion vehicles and replacing them with electric vehicles over a period of one to two decades (by 2035 is what I seem to recall from a few years ago) is supposed to mean that everybody regardless of income level must switch over by tomorrow? If so, then that sounds as loony as marc9000's rants about instantaneously stopping oil production.As production of new cars shifts to a higher percentage of electric vehicles, both market forces (increased availability of new electric and lowered availability of new gas leading to more electric purchases) and improving technology will make the sticker price of new electric cars more competitive with that of new gas jobs.At the same time, increasing numbers of earlier electric models will enter the used-car market, which has its own set of market characteristics including a wide range of customer levels. Over time, there will be enough used electric cars to be within reach of those lower income levels.Please note that we saw the same thing happening when we phased out leaded gasoline along with the cars that required leaded gas.Another consideration is the cost of maintenance. There will be many things that you as a backyard mechanic will not be able to fix on an electric vehicle, but rather you will need to take it to a mechanic with the training and equipment to work on it. Actually, we are already there with fuel injectors (no more carburetors, which I've worked with) and electronic ignition (no more replacing and setting points, which I've worked with), all of which are controlled by "brick brains" (car computers) for which you need a special computer to work with. I haven't check, but does AutoZone even carry those special mechanic's computers?Also, please note even now with used gas cars that even those clunkers are out of reach for many of the poor.So there's a lot involved that will change over time. Your complaints appear to be based on current conditions rather than what we can reasonably expect future conditions to be.bring the price tag

Yes I know, and that mitigation is to do it QUICKLY. The Green New Deal was proposed by A.O.C. in 2019. It's now 2023. 7 more years to 2030, 4 years since 2019. The Green New Deal proposes 100% clean energy by 2030. Think we'll make it by then? Without drastic new authoritarian laws? We constantly get specifics about the recent increases in global temperatures, complete with charts and graphs and predictions and all of that. Why can't we get specifics about what new laws we'll need to achieve the 2030 goal? From Message 57; WHAT RULES?From way back in Message 24; WHAT LAWS? Does anyone here know what the word "specific" means? This is happening through free markets. If there are government laws that are speeding up this process, name them specifically. And we'll look at their costs. This would be a ton of specifics, I won't ask for all that. But if you're aware of steps that have been taken already, and steps that are proposed, do you have any figures on what the COSTS are? I'm not alone in thinking tomorrow's wars will be fought over an economic meltdown. Biden has signed into law $5 trillion in new spending, in his first two years. $31 trillion in debt now, will it become $36 trillion by 2024? Specific solutions involving free markets yes, but no specifics about LAWS. And the free market solutions are moving WAY to slow, to meet the goals of the Green New Deal. !00% renewable by 2030? What are the proposals to do with all the new fossil fuel burning cars and trucks and farm machinery and construction machinery that's being built in 2023? Throw it all away? How many more trillions in debt to cover all that waste?

"Sell less, sell fewer". How is that achieved specifically? New laws for the sellers? New laws for the buyers? A "yes" answer isn't specific. I'm wondering about specific details. One oil company gets destroyed by laws? All oil companies get downsized by laws? Buyers aren't permitted by laws to buy what they want and need? If they can't get what they need, do more government programs help them out? Costs?

m9k blathers on: Yes. One of the laws will say that if your name on EvCforum.net is Marc9000, then you, specifically, have to eat shit and barf oil into the only car still allowed to pollute on the planet. We get to to drive the heavy equipment vehicles over you repeatedly, over and over,, chained down in your car, every time you complain about "special interests" on EvC.So STFU.