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Author Topic:   Winter: Baby, It's Cold Outside!
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 76 of 114 (904648)
01-04-2023 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
01-03-2023 11:24 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Phat writes:
Watch the Social Dilemma. It's a good documentary
There's a difference: Social media is only dangerous to people who worship social media. Climate change will kill everybody equally.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 01-03-2023 11:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 01-04-2023 2:44 PM ringo has replied
 Message 86 by xongsmith, posted 01-05-2023 9:27 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 77 of 114 (904660)
01-04-2023 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ringo
01-04-2023 11:03 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
ringo writes:
Climate change will kill everybody equally.
True enough. This does not mean that we collectively need to morph towards a one-world "democratic" government that markets itself "for the good of all people". People are fickle. There should always be at least a two-party system.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ringo, posted 01-04-2023 11:03 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Taq, posted 01-04-2023 3:08 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 79 by Theodoric, posted 01-04-2023 3:42 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 01-04-2023 7:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 78 of 114 (904661)
01-04-2023 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
01-04-2023 2:44 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Phat writes:
True enough. This does not mean that we collectively need to morph towards a one-world "democratic" government that markets itself "for the good of all people".
No one is saying that we need a one-world democracy to reduce carbon emissions.
All we are asking is that we follow the facts instead of misleading people with misinformation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 01-04-2023 2:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 79 of 114 (904663)
01-04-2023 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
01-04-2023 2:44 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Who other than fringe people are calling for this? Who? Where has anyone of note equated the two things? You are the only person I know that has even brought up such a ridiculous idea.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 01-04-2023 2:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 80 of 114 (904670)
01-04-2023 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
01-04-2023 2:44 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Phat writes:
This does not mean that we collectively need to morph towards a one-world "democratic" government that markets itself "for the good of all people".
You're the only one who's talking about One World Government.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 01-04-2023 2:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 81 of 114 (904714)
01-05-2023 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ringo
01-03-2023 10:54 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
I wasn't referring to non-related laws like drugs or explosives. I was referring to his, or your, propositions for laws to deal with the fossil fuel issue.
How is there a difference?
One is about tradition and common sense, the other is about authoritarianism.
So you're another right-wing nut who doesn't know what authoritarian means.
I showed the definition of it in Message 61. It's very simple.
People are also denied the ability to register cars that are unsafe to be on the road.
False. No federal laws denying auto registration due to any type of mechanical inspection. Maybe a few liberal states, but not federal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 11:26 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 82 of 114 (904715)
01-05-2023 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Taq
01-03-2023 10:55 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
You know, authoritarian laws.

What makes them authoritarian?
When they're promoted and enacted by special interests, rather than the legislative process. Or when the legislators are corrupted.
marc9000 writes:
They often do, when authoritarian laws do things like deny people the ability to register their cars because they don't pass climate change testing.

How is that authoritarian?
quote:
Authoritarianism ; the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:55 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Taq, posted 01-10-2023 11:18 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 83 of 114 (904716)
01-05-2023 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Taq
01-03-2023 10:58 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
The U.S. government recently hired 87,000 new IRS agents. That is additional authoritarianism.

WHAT?????? Enforcing laws is authoritarianism? What are you smoking?
Some people believe we already have enough IRS agents. That we could better use 87,000 more border patrol police.
marc9000 writes:
Of course, and it won't mention Green New Deal authoritarianism.

What is in the Green New Deal that you find authoritarian?
quote:
So the Green New Deal imagines a great leap forward, from a slow, voluntary shift to electrified transportation to a swift, mandated one.
The Green New Deal: What It Would Mean for Transportation - The Greenlining Institute
Mandates, mandates, mandates. By authoritarians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM Taq has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 84 of 114 (904717)
01-05-2023 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
01-03-2023 10:58 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
Climate change alarmists operate almost constantly on fear
...So do zookeepers. "Don't put your hand in the cages."

There are good reasons to warn people about dangerous things.
Free people should have enough sense to know a lot about danger. Sometimes they have to be warned, when the warnings make sense to them, when they can see the danger. We can't see danger in things like global temperatures, when we can't directly sense it. When it's promoted by special interests.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 11:38 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 85 of 114 (904719)
01-05-2023 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Taq
01-03-2023 5:43 PM


Re: Taking the Temp in the Room
Let me see if I understand the right wing view on things.

Authoritarianism is where a country makes laws and then puts people in charge of making sure people don't break those laws. Therefore, every country on the face of the Earth is authoritarian.
Not the right wing view, not what the definition says.
What right wingers think our government should do is just let people pollute as much as they want. Dump tons of radioactive waste into every river system on the continent?
Not the right wing view. If pollution happens to the extent that people can sense it for themselves, then it's taken care of by the legislative process. Not things like slight changes in global temperatures that people can't sense, that they only hear about from special interests.
If you want to understand what the USofA would look like if these type of right wingers were in charge, just watch any popular post-apocalyptic show you know of where there's no laws and no police. That's what they want, apparently.
Far better than watching a show would be to open a history book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 5:43 PM Taq has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2402
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 86 of 114 (904720)
01-05-2023 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ringo
01-04-2023 11:03 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
ringo writes:
Climate change will kill everybody equally.
nothing could be further from the truth. The poorest countries will pay the lion's share as usual. then in order up to the Elon Musks hiding in their orbiting satellites.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ringo, posted 01-04-2023 11:03 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 01-06-2023 11:44 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 87 of 114 (904729)
01-06-2023 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by marc9000
01-05-2023 8:43 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
One is about tradition and common sense, the other is about authoritarianism.
Of course there is no "tradition" about global warming. We haven't understood it long enough to develop any tradition. And of course preventing global warming IS common sense. It's common sense to prevent (by laws or any other means) anything that threatens to destroy our way of life.
So you have shown no difference.
marc9000 writes:
ringo writes:
So you're another right-wing nut who doesn't know what authoritarian means.
​I showed the definition of it in Message 61. It's very simple.
In Message 61, you quoted:
quote:
Authoritarianism ; the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
ALL laws put the common good before personal freedom. You're pretending that ALL laws are authoritarian, which is ridiculous.
Again, you have failed to show any difference between laws about global warming and any other laws.
marc9000 writes:
No federal laws denying auto registration due to any type of mechanical inspection.
Who said anything about "federal" laws? I'm talking about ANY jurisdiction with a responsible, first-world government, not just those Republiclowns in Washington who try to obstruct everything sensible.
marc9000 writes:
Maybe a few liberal states....
So you admit that what I said was true.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 8:43 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 88 of 114 (904731)
01-06-2023 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by marc9000
01-05-2023 9:16 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
Free people should have enough sense to know a lot about danger.
Yes, as I said, "There are good reasons to warn people about dangerous things."
There is nothing "alarmist" about it. REAL alarms are not alarmist.
marc9000 writes:
We can't see danger in things like global temperatures, when we can't directly sense it.
We can't sense danger in a fire at the other end of the building when we can't directly sense it. Your plan is to turn off the fire alarms and wait for people to "directly sense" the fire.
marc9000 writes:
When it's promoted by special interests.
You have it backwards. The "special interests" are trying to downplay the danger. "Don't worry, the fire will never make it to THIS end of the building. How could it?"
The special interests are trying to sell more petroleum products, more gas=guzzling cars, etc.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 9:16 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by marc9000, posted 01-10-2023 9:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 89 of 114 (904733)
01-06-2023 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by xongsmith
01-05-2023 9:27 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
xongsmith writes:
ringo writes:
Climate change will kill everybody equally.
​nothing could be further from the truth. The poorest countries will pay the lion's share as usual. then in order up to the Elon Musks hiding in their orbiting satellites.
You're right. I have to be careful about thinking in bumper-stickers myself.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by xongsmith, posted 01-05-2023 9:27 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 90 of 114 (904888)
01-10-2023 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by marc9000
01-05-2023 8:50 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
When they're promoted and enacted by special interests, rather than the legislative process. Or when the legislators are corrupted.
That's not authoritarianism. Wow, you really don't know what it is.
Authoritarianism ; the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
Can you name a non-authoritarian law that has passed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 8:50 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by marc9000, posted 01-10-2023 9:18 PM Taq has not replied

  
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