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Author Topic:   Winter: Baby, It's Cold Outside!
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 61 of 114 (904611)
01-02-2023 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by dwise1
01-01-2023 7:20 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
dwiseguy writes:
marc9000 writes:
Couldn't you summarize it, condense it, and post it here rather than just saying to read an entire book?
Already done in my Message 219 where I had recommended to Phat that he read that excellent book in order to finally learn what authoritarianism actually is. He keeps using that word but I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
The best way to find out what a word means is to look at a simple dictionary definition. This one works well;
quote:
Authoritarianism ; the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
It doesn't take a thick book dreamed up on a college campus to understand it any better.
Gun control is the opener to a long list of additional authoritarian mandates from a government. History is full of examples. There is a danger that it will preclude new climate change authority, new restrictions on fossil fuel use, etc.
The U.S. government recently hired 87,000 new IRS agents. That is additional authoritarianism.
It looks like this book is a liberal dance to make recently out-in-the-open perversions to be considered "freedoms", and any questioning of it to be an infringement on freedom, or authoritarian.
So, how did you score?
I don't have time for all that tonight. I might give it a try sometime, but the questions are obviously loaded, to show someone like me to be more of an authoritarian than a climate change fanatic, or gun control fanatic.
That new book does deal with Trump, though they had submitted the manuscript to the publisher on 26 Jun 2020 and Altemeyer's review of theirs and other books about the Trump Administration was written on 08 Oct 2020 (before the election, even). BTW, that link to Authoritarian Nightmare takes you to that review.
Of course, it will show Trump as a terrible authoritarian, the first one in world history to advocate that the general public remain armed. But it won't mention that part.
I haven't read the latest book yet, but I'm sure that it analyzes some of the MAGAt dumbfuckery that keeps getting ever worse.
Of course, and it won't mention Green New Deal authoritarianism.
BTW, it was John Dean who in 2006 urged Altemeyer to write The Authoritarians; read the Acknowledgements.
Not a surprise, another Watergate guy, G.Gordon Liddy, an actual conservative, called John Dean a rat several times on his talk radio show back in the 90's. Not surprised that Dean would hate Republicans.
marc9000 writes:
Does it contain an LWA spectrum also?

That is a most incredibly stupid and ignorant question. There's no such thing as a "LWA spectrum"!
quote:
Robert Anthony Altemeyer (born 6 June 1940) is a retired Professor of Psychology at the University of Manitoba.[1][2] Altemeyer also produced the right-wing authoritarianism scale, or RWA Scale,[3] as well as the related left-wing authoritarianism scale, or LWA Scale.[4]
Bob Altemeyer - Wikipedia
Please make an enormous life-style change and learn something about what you're pontificating about! You will be amazed at how much good it will do you to know what you are talking about.
The irony at this funny place can get thick as a brick sometimes.
It's called the RWA spectrum because that's what it measures. And as Altemeyer explains himself, it has absolutely nothing to do with politics (except that MAGAts and other Republicans tend to be high-RWA and Democrats low-RWA).
And you believe that? OF COURSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS! When people hear "right wing", they don't think of politics do they? I love this place! This book is obviously nothing but Democrat fringe entertainment.
Are you starting to understand now?
I sure do, thank you very much!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by dwise1, posted 01-01-2023 7:20 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 62 of 114 (904613)
01-02-2023 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
01-02-2023 11:22 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
I gave you examples in the post you are quoting Message 44. You said, "Fossil fuels are voluntarily purchased by people who desire to have them." and I replied that so are drugs, explosives and poison gasses. All of them are voluntarily purchased by people who desire to have them. All of them have had laws passed against them.
Taq brought up "laws" to address the fossil fuel issue. I wasn't referring to non-related laws like drugs or explosives. I was referring to his, or your, propositions for laws to deal with the fossil fuel issue. You know, authoritarian laws.
To spell it out for you, laws don't prevent people from doing what they want to do.
They often do, when authoritarian laws do things like deny people the ability to register their cars because they don't pass climate change testing. Policemen who pull unregistered cars over carry guns.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 01-02-2023 11:22 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2023 10:38 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:54 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 01-03-2023 10:55 AM marc9000 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 63 of 114 (904615)
01-02-2023 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by marc9000
01-02-2023 10:33 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Emissions laws are not authoritarian. These laws are doing exactly what the Constitution spelled out its purpose is. This is the part RWNJs ignore.
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:56 PM Theodoric has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 64 of 114 (904616)
01-02-2023 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by dwise1
01-02-2023 1:01 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
quote:
High-RWAs operate almost constantly on fear and hate. While everybody experiences and reacts through fear at one time or another, high-RWAs do so almost constantly such that they are forever surrounded by horrific existential threats like people saying "Happy Holidays". I seem to recall it was Roger Ailes who described the FOX News content that he wanted to see as "whatever would scare your grandfather."
Climate change alarmists operate almost constantly on fear (climate change) and hate. (of Republicans) They are forever surrounded by horrific existential threats of climate change.
quote:
High-RWAs divide the world between "us" and "them" while viewing "them" as the mortal enemies of "us".
Pot, meet kettle. It seems like a lot of Altemeyer's philosophy is to transfer Democrat characteristics on Republicans.
quote:
While authoritarian leaders are normally not high-RWA, they do turn to high-RWA followers as "low-hanging fruit" who are so easy to organize into an army of mindless sheeple who will follow you anywhere.
A lot of Democrat voters are terrified of climate change, and will follow oil company hating Democrats anywhere.
quote:
"Tell a high-RWA that you believe in what he does and he'll believe you and follow you. Tell that to a low-RWA and he will not believe you." That is why Republicans (typically high-RWA) will follow Dear Leader to the end, whereas Democrats (typically low-RWA) are nearly as hard to herd than cats.
Biden gets no criticism from the news media. The wide open southern border issue was completely covered up in their news reports months before the last election. There's never been a better example of sheeple following their dear leader (Biden) to the end. The Biden thread here has been dead since summer. He must be perfect!
quote:
"Republicans fall in lock-step. Democrats fall in love."
Low-RWAs tend to view others in society as being fellow members of that society, holding the view that we are all in the same boat so we all need to work together for our common goals and benefit.
Yes, the "common good", COMMUNISM.
quote:
High-RWAs view others in society as the "them" enemy and conduct themselves accordingly.
NOTE: high-RWAs tend to seek to punish the victims of wrong-doing or disasters. Consider Republicans voting against aid for hurricane victims in Puerto Rico and NY/NJ (Hurricane Sandy), whereas Democrats vote for hurricane disaster aid for red states.
Yes, GROW THE GOVERNMENT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by dwise1, posted 01-02-2023 1:01 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1343
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 65 of 114 (904617)
01-02-2023 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Theodoric
01-02-2023 10:38 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Emissions laws are not authoritarian. These laws are doing exactly what the Constitution spelled out its purpose is. This is the part RWNJs ignore.
quote:
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The following is the part that Democrats ignore;
quote:
“With respect to the two words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” Thomas Jefferson.
Thomas Jefferson Rejects the Power of Congress to “Do Whatever Evil They Please” | Tenth Amendment Center

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2023 10:38 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2023 11:23 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 66 of 114 (904618)
01-02-2023 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by marc9000
01-02-2023 10:56 PM


Always verify quotes or you might look stupid
Thomas Jefferson never said or wrote those words. I wonder if you are able to figure out who did write them.
Even so it does not support you in any way. I know of no one that thinks that clause overrides everything. That would be stupid. The writer is not saying general welfare is a throw away term and not a purpose of the Constitution, but like everything else there are limits. These limits are powers outlined in the Constitution.
I know. Understanding what words mean is hard.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:56 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 67 of 114 (904619)
01-03-2023 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by marc9000
01-02-2023 10:33 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
I wasn't referring to non-related laws like drugs or explosives. I was referring to his, or your, propositions for laws to deal with the fossil fuel issue.
How is there a difference?
marc9000 writes:
You know, authoritarian laws.
So you're another right-wing nut who doesn't know what authoritarian means.
marc9000 writes:
ringo writes:
... laws don't prevent people from doing what they want to do.
​They often do, when authoritarian laws do things like deny people the ability to register their cars because they don't pass climate change testing.
People are also denied the ability to register cars that are unsafe to be on the road. Climate-change regulations are just another part of safety regulations.
marc9000 writes:
Policemen who pull unregistered cars over carry guns.
Newsflash! Several police forces are now using a new invention - policewomen.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 8:43 PM ringo has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 68 of 114 (904620)
01-03-2023 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by marc9000
01-02-2023 10:33 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
You know, authoritarian laws.
What makes them authoritarian?
They often do, when authoritarian laws do things like deny people the ability to register their cars because they don't pass climate change testing.
How is that authoritarian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 8:50 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 69 of 114 (904621)
01-03-2023 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by marc9000
01-02-2023 10:24 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
The U.S. government recently hired 87,000 new IRS agents. That is additional authoritarianism.
WHAT?????? Enforcing laws is authoritarianism? What are you smoking?
Every country enforces their laws. Is every country authoritarian?
Of course, and it won't mention Green New Deal authoritarianism.
What is in the Green New Deal that you find authoritarian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:24 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 9:11 PM Taq has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 70 of 114 (904622)
01-03-2023 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by marc9000
01-02-2023 10:48 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
marc9000 writes:
Climate change alarmists operate almost constantly on fear ...
So do zookeepers. "Don't put your hand in the cages."
There are good reasons to warn people about dangerous things.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by marc9000, posted 01-02-2023 10:48 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 01-03-2023 11:24 PM ringo has replied
 Message 84 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 9:16 PM ringo has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 71 of 114 (904636)
01-03-2023 5:43 PM


Taking the Temp in the Room
Let me see if I understand the right wing view on things.
Authoritarianism is where a country makes laws and then puts people in charge of making sure people don't break those laws. Therefore, every country on the face of the Earth is authoritarian.
What right wingers think our government should do is just let people pollute as much as they want. Dump tons of radioactive waste into every river system on the continent? Sure, go for it. After all, we can't get in the way of personal freedoms. That would be authoritarianism. Let factories flood our ground water with carcinogens? Sure, why not? They should be free to do whatever they want, right? Let people kill whomever they want? Absolutely!! People should be able to do whatever they want. Cross the border and get a job? Absolutely, that's a personal freedom, right? It would be authoritarian to tell people they couldn't.
If you want to understand what the USofA would look like if these type of right wingers were in charge, just watch any popular post-apocalyptic show you know of where there's no laws and no police. That's what they want, apparently.

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by marc9000, posted 01-05-2023 9:25 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 72 of 114 (904641)
01-03-2023 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
01-03-2023 10:58 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Watch the Social Dilemma. It's a good documentary

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 01-03-2023 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Theodoric, posted 01-03-2023 11:28 PM Phat has replied
 Message 76 by ringo, posted 01-04-2023 11:03 AM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 73 of 114 (904642)
01-03-2023 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
01-03-2023 11:24 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
Relevance?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 01-03-2023 11:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 01-04-2023 1:53 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 74 of 114 (904643)
01-04-2023 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Theodoric
01-03-2023 11:28 PM


Re: Midwest unprepared
There are good reasons to warn people about dangerous things.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Theodoric, posted 01-03-2023 11:28 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Theodoric, posted 01-04-2023 8:06 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 75 of 114 (904644)
01-04-2023 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Phat
01-04-2023 1:53 AM


Re: Midwest unprepared
But irrelevant to this topic.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 01-04-2023 1:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
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