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Author Topic:   Phat's Bookshelf
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 16 of 174 (904162)
12-22-2022 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Theodoric
12-22-2022 1:52 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Theo writes:
What is this sentence trying to say?
That in our arrogant attempt to control a country as large and powerful (nuclearwise, anyway) as Russia with sanctions as if they were a banana republic essentially was equivalent to shooting ourselves in the foot. The US dollar, weakened by years of inflation and no longer backed by anything but a democratic nod by a Western alliance, is on its way out.
Russia and China play the game of good cop/bad cop. Putin, despicable though he is, is no fool. He is evil, heartless, and cruel but he chose to hang Russia's hat and economic future on the next rising global empire rather than the older falling one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2022 1:52 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2022 5:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 18 by Taq, posted 12-22-2022 5:21 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 17 of 174 (904163)
12-22-2022 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
12-22-2022 5:00 PM


Letting the cray cray out I see
This explanation, as nutball as it is, has no relation to the statement I questioned.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 5:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 18 of 174 (904164)
12-22-2022 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
12-22-2022 5:00 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
Russia and China play the game of good cop/bad cop. Putin, despicable though he is, is no fool. He is evil, heartless, and cruel but he chose to hang Russia's hat and economic future on the next rising global empire rather than the older falling one.
quote:
Nearly every asset class has seen miserable returns in 2022, except for the United States dollar.
The dollar has strengthened dramatically over the course of the year as the Federal Reserve hiked interest rates in an effort to quash sky-high inflation. The U.S. Dollar Index, which measures the greenback against a basket of other currencies, is up more than 17% so far this year.
“We have seen a tremendous rise in the dollar,” said Matt Forester, chief investment officer of Lockwood Advisors at BNY Mellon Pershing. “It’s a juggernaut in the middle of every securities transaction and payment around the globe.”
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/strong-dollar/
The dollar is still doing just fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 5:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2022 5:48 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 12-27-2022 7:53 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 19 of 174 (904165)
12-22-2022 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
12-22-2022 4:53 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
Remember what Nixon did in 1971?
Yes, and it has nothing to do with the markets that determine the value of the dollar compared to other currencies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 4:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 20 of 174 (904166)
12-22-2022 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taq
12-22-2022 5:21 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
And gold and silver are down for the year.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Taq, posted 12-22-2022 5:21 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 6:32 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 12-27-2022 7:56 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 21 of 174 (904167)
12-22-2022 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Theodoric
12-22-2022 5:48 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Thats irrelevant...neither here nor there. Consider that Gold and Silver are slightly down, but in no way will they ever crash (as Bitcoin did). Stop and think. They are priced (valued) in US Dollars. There are five times as many dollars in circulation as there used to be. The dollar is inflating. Its not like the gold is going down. Gold doesn't "go" anywhere.
It is the dollar that is essentially "going down" (inflating)
Does that make any sense?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2022 5:48 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2022 7:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2022 11:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 24 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 10:49 AM Phat has replied
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 11:00 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 58 by Theodoric, posted 12-24-2022 10:06 PM Phat has replied
 Message 91 by Taq, posted 12-27-2022 12:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 22 of 174 (904170)
12-22-2022 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
12-22-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
None at all.
Gold and Silver have crashed before.
Gold & Silver Crashes in History: Severity, Duration, and Recoveries | SilverSeek
The idea that they are a hedge against inflation is disproven by the fact their value in dollars has dropped when there was some inflationary pressure this last year.
The US dollar is up big against other currencies.
What do you mean the dollar is inflating? What does that mean?
Gold is going down. It went down over the last year. YTD the value of gold has dropped 2% in 2021 it dropped 3.5%. That is over 5% in 2 years.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 6:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 23 of 174 (904177)
12-22-2022 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
12-22-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
There are five times as many dollars in circulation as there used to be.
Source? Time frame? Are we talking months, years, decades? Do you actually have any idea what you are talking about?
Do you mean M1 or M2 or something else?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 6:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 24 of 174 (904203)
12-23-2022 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
12-22-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
Consider that Gold and Silver are slightly down, but in no way will they ever crash (as Bitcoin did). Stop and think. They are priced (valued) in US Dollars. There are five times as many dollars in circulation as there used to be. The dollar is inflating. Its not like the gold is going down.
Why couldn't gold prices go down? Why couldn't there be a flood of gold onto the market? You are aware that people mine gold, right?
If gold prices aren't keeping up with inflation then gold prices are down. Period. If you bought gold 2 years ago and sold it today you would have lost money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 6:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 11:58 AM Taq has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 25 of 174 (904204)
12-23-2022 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
12-22-2022 1:41 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
I am convinced (so far, anyway) that the Central Banks want to promote digital currency...
So the central banks are conspiring? Who's behind the conspiracy?
Phat writes:
Anyone who doubts the bedrock value of hard assets (Land, Gold, Copper, Nickel, Oil, Natural Gas, etc) need only ask Europe what they think as they shiver this Winter.
The oil and natural gas will be pretty handy to prevent shivering - not so much your adored land, gold, copper and nickel. Gold doesn't give off much heat.
Phat writes:
Why don't banks lend out their reserves?
Because they're reserves.
Phat writes:
Everyone in global finance knows that Gold still backs the Central Banks. If not, why would they bother to own it?
That question has been answered for you before. Read your replies, even if you can't refute them.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 1:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 26 of 174 (904206)
12-23-2022 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
12-22-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
Does that make any sense?
No.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 6:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 27 of 174 (904213)
12-23-2022 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
12-22-2022 1:41 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Why don't banks lend out their reserves?
Do you recall hearing about the great depression? Do you know what happened to most of the banks? Banks are now required, as in legally required, to hold specific amounts as reserve because of that tragic experience.
Do your research, Phat, BEFORE you stick your foot in it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 12-22-2022 1:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:17 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 28 of 174 (904218)
12-23-2022 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taq
12-23-2022 10:49 AM


Now that you mention it
Taq writes:
If gold prices aren't keeping up with inflation then gold prices are down. Period. If you bought gold 2 years ago and sold it today you would have lost money.
First of all, what is this insane idea that it is "normal" for assets to keep up with inflation?
Inflation is when the prices "inflate" while the assets stay put. Its a bit like the chicken and the egg analogy.
So which came first in 1974? Wage hikes or Price hikes? and what were both of them hoking further and further away "from"? Riddle me that.
My friend decided, a couple of years ago before the bear market to "cash in" his 401K and buy a bigger house. He wanted to own that sucker outright and also own the land that it sat on.
This is whats beautiful. He is one of my liberally minded friends. He did know, however, that the markets would correct. Yet he worried about the "value" of his house also crashing. I told him to relax. A house is always going to be a house. The copper pipes are not going anywhere. The brick stay stacked. The floors are solid.
Now...even if the value of that house (relative to the US Dollar, as are all assets) dropped, the intrinsic value of the house would remain. A house is a hard asset. And though Nixon decoupled the value of the currency (Cash, US Dollar) from the gold in 1971, the dollar has been hiking while the gold stays the same. It is not that gold fails to keep up with inflation. It is not that the dollar is increasing in value. The dollar is becoming worth less. The gold is standing still.(bedrock) It will be interesting to see once the world decides to dump the dollar and value everything relative to the value of some new currency. And I wonder what the bedrock will be that supports that currency?
Republicans by and large want the gold to be the bedrock.(I think, anyway)
Democrats want the people to be the bedrock. But here is the kickr. Humans are not a solid bedrock. Only rocks are solid bedrock. (Or the Rock of Ages! )
Human value is subjective like shifting sand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 10:49 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:08 PM Phat has replied
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 12:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 32 by nwr, posted 12-23-2022 12:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 29 of 174 (904221)
12-23-2022 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
12-23-2022 11:58 AM


Re: Now that you mention it
Phat writes:
First of all, what is this insane idea that it is "normal" for assets to keep up with inflation?
Inflation is when the prices "inflate" while the assets stay put. Its a bit like the chicken and the egg analogy.
If assets don't keep up with inflation then no one should buy them. They will always lose money.
Now...even if the value of that house (relative to the US Dollar, as are all assets) dropped, the intrinsic value of the house would remain. A house is a hard asset.
The intrinsic value won't matter much if a person needs to sell their house, either because of needing to move or financial hardship. This is especially true if people owe money on a mortgage. If you are upside down on your mortgage, that could be a real problem if you need to sell.
The dollar is becoming worth less. The gold is standing still.
So if gold is worth the same dollar amount over time as the dollar becomes worth less then the gold is worth less.
It will be interesting to see once the world decides to dump the dollar and value everything relative to the value of some new currency. And I wonder what the bedrock will be that supports that currency?
When you decide to rejoin us in the real world, let me know. I'm not sure what good it will do to decide what is happening in the world you are fantasizing about.
Republicans by and large want the gold to be the bedrock.(I think, anyway)
Democrats want the people to be the bedrock. But here is the kickr. Humans are not a solid bedrock. Only rocks are solid bedrock. (Or the Rock of Ages! )
I have never heard Republicans pushing for the dollar to be put on a gold standard. In reality, both parties are strongly influenced by big finance which probably wants the modern fiat currencies to continue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 11:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:26 PM Taq has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 30 of 174 (904222)
12-23-2022 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
12-23-2022 11:58 AM


Re: Now that you mention it
Phat writes:
Humans are not a solid bedrock.
But they are. Despite all your harping about the "Rock of Ages", humans are the only thing that matters.
Humans will always need food, clothing, shelter. Humans will always need to work.
Their ability to work is their only real asset. Depressions, wars, etc. can make a mess of any "economic system" but no depression or war can eliminate a human's ability to work.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 11:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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