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Author Topic:   Phat's Bookshelf
PaulK
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Posts: 17396
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 151 of 174 (905150)
01-19-2023 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Phat
01-19-2023 1:57 AM


Re: The War On The West
Does Murray really try to blame the opioid crisis on China?
While there would be an element of poetic justice, isn’t rather more to do with Western capitalism ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 1:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 10:30 AM PaulK has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 152 of 174 (905153)
01-19-2023 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by PaulK
01-19-2023 9:49 AM


Re: The War On The West
Who do you think profits from it in China itself? Capitalism may well be the global villain, but it seems to me to be a product of human nature. Take slavery. The African opportunists who gathered, betrayed and sold out their own people were more despicable than the Western buyers. And why is the West always vilified for slavery when every bit as much trade went East? They dont talk about Eastern Slaves as much due to the fact that they were often castrated and later killed.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by PaulK, posted 01-19-2023 9:49 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by PaulK, posted 01-19-2023 10:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 155 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 11:01 AM Phat has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17396
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 153 of 174 (905158)
01-19-2023 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Phat
01-19-2023 10:30 AM


Re: The War On The West
quote:
Who do you think profits from it in China itself?
I’m not the one claiming that China is behind it. As far as I know the opioid crisis has more to do with big pharma pushing the drugs, even though they are highly addictive.
And I don’t hear anyone defending slavers of any race or nation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 10:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 154 of 174 (905160)
01-19-2023 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Phat
01-19-2023 3:22 AM


Re: The War On The West Chapter One
Phat writes:
Chapter One goes on to discuss the evolution of CRT(Critical Race Theory) and of its effects on society-at-large.
Yet another boogey man that Conservatives use to scare people. The only impact CRT has had on society is Conservatives telling people to be scared of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 3:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 155 of 174 (905164)
01-19-2023 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Phat
01-19-2023 10:30 AM


Re: The War On The West
The African opportunists who gathered, betrayed and sold out their own people were more despicable than the Western buyers
Sellers more despicable than the sellers? How do you judge such a thing? When you use the term "own people", you mean black people? So you just lump all Africans under one umbrella?
And why is the West always vilified for slavery when every bit as much trade went East? They dont talk about Eastern Slaves as much due to the fact that they were often castrated and later killed.
Source?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 11:34 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 156 of 174 (905170)
01-19-2023 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Theodoric
01-19-2023 11:01 AM


Re: The War On The West
Reparations writes:
It is impossible not to note how fantastically one-sided, ill-informed, and hostile this debate has become. No world forum ever concentrates seriously on any form of reparations that does not involve the West. And there is an obvious reason why there are no calls for reparations to Africans abducted into the slave trade that went East. Which is that the Arabs deliberately killed off the millions of Africans they bought. But there is little explanation as to why it is that today it is only Western former colonial powers or former slave-owning countries that are expected to pay any sort of compensation for sins of two centuries ago. Modern Turkey is not expected to pay money for the activities of the Ottoman Empire. An empire that, incidentally, ran on for twice as long as the empires of Europe did. After all these years, it is still only the sins of the West that the world—including much of the West—wish to linger over.
That's my source. We now need to find the authors source.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 11:01 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 11:43 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 159 by Taq, posted 01-19-2023 11:52 AM Phat has replied
 Message 168 by Theodoric, posted 01-20-2023 8:29 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 157 of 174 (905171)
01-19-2023 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Phat
01-19-2023 3:22 AM


Re: The War On The West Chapter One
In our culture, white people can experience racial prejudice but not racism. Racism is built upon a power dynamic. Here is an article that explains the this. It is a well-developed and argued article and argument. If you want to discuss bring the same. Not just your typical denial or your bullshit that your opinion has value.
Can white people experience racism? | Metro News

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 3:22 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 11:57 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 158 of 174 (905173)
01-19-2023 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
01-19-2023 11:34 AM


Re: The War On The West
That is not a source. All it is is a quote. There are many historical, factual and logical issues with this, but it isnt a source

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 11:34 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 159 of 174 (905175)
01-19-2023 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
01-19-2023 11:34 AM


Re: The War On The West
Phat writes:
That's my source. We now need to find the authors source.
Americans don't have standing in African or Middle Eastern courts, and Americans have no say in the governments in those regions. That would be the difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 11:34 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 12:01 PM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 160 of 174 (905176)
01-19-2023 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Theodoric
01-19-2023 11:40 AM


Re: The War On The West Chapter One
I read the article. To sum it up, I got a quote from it:
Natalie Morris(author) writes:
White people can indeed face stereotypical assumptions based on their skin colour and hence encounter racial prejudice. But this cannot be called racism, because of the inherent systemic imbalance of power between those with lighter skin colour and people of colour.
Racial prejudice can affect people on an individual level, but it would not have the same effect on a larger social and cultural level because it is only when stereotypes are bolstered by power, such as through a eurocentric model of thinking, that it creates systemic and structural racism and oppression that people of colour have encountered throughout history.
Thus I have your argument summarized. It will be interesting to compare with some of Murray's arguments. He is, after all, a Conservative, which is anathema to you!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 11:40 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 12:06 PM Phat has replied
 Message 167 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 1:24 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 161 of 174 (905177)
01-19-2023 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Taq
01-19-2023 11:52 AM


Re: The War On The West
What's fascinating yet disturbing to me is the point that Murray brings up that many of the critics of the Western system of traditional power are made up of many in the West themselves! Talk about wanting to shoot the horse you ride on! And yet all of you will whine once the system crashes. You will blame the conservatives for a crash that you helped cause.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Taq, posted 01-19-2023 11:52 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Taq, posted 01-19-2023 12:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 165 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 12:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 162 of 174 (905180)
01-19-2023 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Phat
01-19-2023 12:01 PM


Re: The War On The West
Phat writes:
What's fascinating yet disturbing to me is the point that Murray brings up that many of the critics of the Western system of traditional power are made up of many in the West themselves! Talk about wanting to shoot the horse you ride on!
It's called being self aware, understanding why you have a privileged position in the world. Why is that disturbing?
And yet all of you will whine once the system crashes. You will blame the conservatives for a crash that you helped cause.
Fantasies are not a replacement for reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 12:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 163 of 174 (905183)
01-19-2023 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Phat
01-19-2023 11:57 AM


Re: The War On The West Chapter One
He is, after all, a Conservative, which is anathema to you!
Again not true. I have a strong respect for actual conservatives. I can work with and actually discuss things with a conservative. I have no respect for MAGAts, RWNJs, and racists. Murray is a self-loathing gay, atheist that uses the conservative nameplate to espouse racism and hate.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 11:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 12:12 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 164 of 174 (905186)
01-19-2023 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Theodoric
01-19-2023 12:06 PM


Re: The War On The West Chapter One
Wow. That's quite a series of accusations. His books do well in the reviews.
Also ask yourself if you would have dug up the same information against a liberal author...(gay or not! )
Add:
And would you be as critical of an author whom you agreed with?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 12:06 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2023 12:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 169 by Theodoric, posted 01-20-2023 8:38 AM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 165 of 174 (905188)
01-19-2023 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Phat
01-19-2023 12:01 PM


Re: The War On The West
So in good christian fashion, the means to the end don't matter only the end? No criticism of the USA no matter what? Weird how you don't feel that way under a Dem President?
Fuck the rest of the world, I have mine?
As my cousin Cathy would say.
quote:
"There's those strong Christian values...."

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Phat, posted 01-19-2023 12:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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