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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
ringo
Member (Idle past 463 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 256 of 302 (904915)
01-11-2023 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Phat
01-11-2023 11:59 AM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
Phat writes:
I dont see us as a fascist nation! We have too many checks and balances
The Weimar Republic had one of the best constitutions ever devised. The problem was that the people didn't respect the constitution or democracy in general.
Phat writes:
...and a good 30% of our people are actally quite moderate and sane.
Not near enough for a majority.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 11:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 2:37 PM ringo has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10119
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 257 of 302 (904916)
01-11-2023 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Phat
01-11-2023 11:59 AM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
Phat writes:
For the record, I'm not too worried about Trump ever getting into office again. He barely got in the first time when nobody knew how nuts he was, and now that we the people know, how on earth could the guy get elected again? (If it were to happen, I would be convinced that the world was ending! )
The Trump movement is certainly the most fascist we have seen in recent memory, and it is based on ideas that have been circulating in Republican circles for decades now.
Perhaps the best distillation of fascism is the Nazi slogan "Blood and Soil", which, by the way, is what the Proud Boys chanted at one of their rallies. This gets to the heart of what fascism is. It is cultishly focused on ultra-nationalism and nativism. It is also focused on a narrative of some great past where the nation used to be better (i.e. "Make America Great Again"). Everything is subservient to those ideologies. It isn't a mistake that fascist groups like the Proud Boys find the Trump movement so attractive. It isn't a mistake that we can see so many parallels to Mussolini's Fascist movement that was later perfected by the Nazis. It isn't a mistake that when the leader of the modern Fascist party (the very same party founded by Mussolini) in Italy became Prime Minister that she was lauded by conservative groups. Why are conservatives such supporters of a fascist?
Is the US an authoritarian government? Absolutely not. We have free and fair elections, one of the first hallmarks of a non-authoritarian government. We are nowhere close to one. It is simply ridiculous to point to laws passed by a strong democracy as being authoritarian. Authoritarian is not a synonym for "laws I don't like". This silly game conservatives play with words needs to stop.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 11:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4474
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 258 of 302 (904918)
01-11-2023 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Phat
01-11-2023 11:59 AM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
Phat writes:
He barely got in the first time when nobody knew how nuts he was, and now that we the people know, how on earth could the guy get elected again?
WTF are you talking about. EVERYONE predicted what a Trump presidency would be like. For Fuck Sake, Hillary predicted it in the debates.
You really are a FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 11:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 259 of 302 (904920)
01-11-2023 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by ringo
01-11-2023 1:21 PM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
ringo writes:
The Weimar Republic had one of the best constitutions ever devised. The problem was that the people didn't respect the constitution or democracy in general.
The German people were saddled with war reparations debts from WW I that crippled their economy and snuffed out their ambitions. If we dont want it to happen again, we had best not tax the crap out of the working class in order to pay off the debts and expenses of the enormous social programs which our nation cannot afford.
We respect democracy as long as we the middle(working class) are not crippled through being expected to pay the bill that the rich wont pay and the poor cant pay.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by ringo, posted 01-11-2023 1:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Taq, posted 01-11-2023 3:02 PM Phat has replied
 Message 264 by ringo, posted 01-12-2023 10:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 260 of 302 (904921)
01-11-2023 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Theodoric
01-11-2023 9:47 AM


Re: Getting Back On Topic
Theo writes:
Phat likes to start inane discussions but quickly abandons them to move on to start another inane discussion. There are a number of comments I made that he has not replied to.
Thats because you ask questions that require me to do the research of a fucking term papers worth of data to address! Ive got things to do every day. I cant answer your incessant demands for evidence on topics that are obvious to the layman.
I will try and look some of your unanswered questions up, though. Do you recall any off the bat?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2023 9:47 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2023 3:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10119
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.9


(3)
Message 261 of 302 (904922)
01-11-2023 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
01-11-2023 2:37 PM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
Phat writes:
The German people were saddled with war reparations debts from WW I that crippled their economy and snuffed out their ambitions. If we dont want it to happen again, we had best not tax the crap out of the working class in order to pay off the debts and expenses of the enormous social programs which our nation cannot afford.
Tell that to your conservative buddies who continue to shift the tax burden away from the rich and onto the working class.
If we throw out Medicare and pushed seniors to the private insurance market we would see many seniors dying of preventable diseases simply because they can't afford health care. Do away with social security and you would have seniors thrown out on the streets.
We can't afford these programs? BULLSHIT!!! We can't afford not to have them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 2:37 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 3:03 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 262 of 302 (904923)
01-11-2023 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Taq
01-11-2023 3:02 PM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
I fully agree with you.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Taq, posted 01-11-2023 3:02 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9257
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 263 of 302 (904925)
01-11-2023 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Phat
01-11-2023 2:42 PM


Re: Getting Back On Topic
I cant answer your incessant demands for evidence on topics that are obvious to the layman
Evidently they are not obvious. If you don't have an answer then you shouldnt have made the post in the first place.
Why did you bring up Rep. Ocasio-Cortez when discussing Candace Owen's?
How do we institute a gold standard?
Name fiat currencies that failed and why?
Why is silver a better investment than the stock market?
Do have any idea what The Federal Reserve does?
You can start there. You spoke like you understood these subjects. There should be no research if you do. You could just admit you don't know what you are talking about and were just spouting shit.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 2:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 463 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 264 of 302 (904938)
01-12-2023 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
01-11-2023 2:37 PM


Re: The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
Phat writes:
The German people were saddled with war reparations debts from WW I that crippled their economy and snuffed out their ambitions.
Wrong. The German people had contempt for democracy long before the war, much like the contempt for democracy that the conservatives in the US are developing now. So for, the American conservatives don't have an excuse like war debts. When they do, you'll be goose-stepping down the street with your swastika armband and stiff-arm salute.
Phat writes:
If we dont want it to happen again, we had best not tax the crap out of the working class...
You're just harping on the same old same old without making the slightest attempt to back up your claims.
Phat writes:
... in order to pay off the debts and expenses of the enormous social programs which our nation cannot afford.
I keep telling you, social programs are not a drain on the economy. They boost the economy. They make more taxpayers.
Phat writes:
We respect democracy as long as...
There's your problem right there. You don't respect democracy for its own sake. You don't respect democracy because it's the overall best system. You only respect democracy "as long as" it makes YOU better off (in your own misguided perception).
Phat writes:
...as long as we the middle(working class) are not crippled through being expected to pay the bill that the rich wont pay and the poor cant pay.
Idiot. The poor COULD pay if you would stop robbing them.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 2:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9257
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 265 of 302 (907764)
02-28-2023 10:46 AM


An actual economist has thoughts on Dalio
Worse than hypocrisy: Ray Dalio and the heart of darkest capitalism
quote:
Friends,
Bridgewater Associates is the world’s largest hedge fund, managing roughly $125 billion of other people’s money. The New York Times recently reported that its founder, Ray Dalio, agreed to relinquish control of the firm only if it gave him what could amount to billions of dollars in regular payouts over the coming years through a special class of stock.
Dalio already has an estimated net worth of $19 billion.
I first came across Dalio in 2019 when I read his 5,000-word treatise “Why and How Capitalism Needs to be Reformed.” I was intrigued. Here was a major financial figure arguing that capitalism “is not working well for the majority of Americans because it’s producing self-reinforcing spirals up for the haves and down for the have-nots.” That widening wealth gap, Dalio noted, is “bringing about damaging domestic and international conflicts and weakening America’s condition.”
Dalio foresaw one of two outcomes: Either we “re-engineer the system so that the pie is both divided and grown well” or else “we will have great conflict and some form of revolution that will hurt most everyone and will shrink the pie.”
All of that seemed right to me — even more so today. America has already started down the second path. Trump, DeSantis, and other demagogues have been exploiting working-class anger to pump up their power.
But Dalio had no proposal for “re-engineering” the system. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn’t supported a wealth tax or any tax increase on people like himself. He hasn’t proposed stopping giant hedge funds and private equity funds from forcing companies to squeeze out every ounce of profits, typically by suppressing wages and abandoning workers and communities. And he certainly hasn’t proposed capping executive pay.
Worldwide, there are now some 10,000 hedge funds, which together manage about $2 trillion — and they charge their clients a bundle. On top of a 2 percent management fee, they deduct 20 percent of any investment gains. This lets hedge fund managers classify much of their income as “capital gains,” taxed at a far lower rate than regular income. Their wealth has given them so much political clout that this absurd “carried interest” tax loophole remains, despite promises from the last four presidents to close it.
So while schoolteachers and cops face a marginal tax rate of 25 percent, hedge fund managers like Dalio have for years paid only 15 percent on their enormous incomes.
Yet most of the funds Dalio manages come from schoolteachers and cops and other average working Americans. Fully a third come from public pension funds such as the Pennsylvania Public School Employees’ Retirement System. Another third from corporate pension funds that are supposed to guard the retirement savings of their workers, such as those at Kodak and General Motors.
Meanwhile, CEOs and star traders now routinely demand eight-figure compensation packages to keep up with their counterparts at hedge funds.
It’s a giant zero-sum game, as Dalio himself recognizes. “In order to earn more than the market return, you have to take money from somebody else,” he says.
It’s worse than a zero-sum game because hedge funds, like private equity funds, pressure corporations to lay off workers, reduce the (inflation-adjusted) pay of average workers, bust unions, and move production abroad or to anti-labor states.
They also use their wealth to distort and corrupt American politics, as I’ve already noted.
And they use piles of borrowed money — thereby blowing gigantic, dangerous speculative bubbles. When Wall Street firms got into trouble in 2008, Bridgewater was one of the funds that pulled money out of Lehman Brothers, leaving the American public holding the bag.
There is little justification for hedge funds. If pension funds want to balance out any risks they may take in the stock and bond markets, they can accomplish this far more cheaply through standard leveraging tactics.
Note to pension fund managers: Get the hell out of hedge funds. You’re wasting the retirement money of the workers you’re supposed to represent.
Meanwhile, there’s no justification for the giant compensation packages of hedge fund partners.
Note to pension fund managers: If you absolutely must be in hedge funds, make your voices heard on taming executive pay.
And there’s no justification whatever for maintaining the “carried interest” loophole in the tax code.
Note to President Biden and Congress: Get rid of it.
As Ray Dalio wrote, the system is not working well for the majority of Americans because it’s producing self-reinforcing spirals up for the haves and down for the have-nots. Dalio and his compatriots are part of that self-reinforcing spiral. The rest of us are all the worse for it.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2023 11:03 AM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 03-16-2023 1:15 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9524
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 266 of 302 (907767)
02-28-2023 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Theodoric
02-28-2023 10:46 AM


Re: An actual economist has thoughts on Dalio
The three richest Americans own more wealth than 50% of the population of the USA.
The 3 Richest Americans Hold More Wealth Than Bottom 50% Of The Country, Study Finds
liberty before equality my arse.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Theodoric, posted 02-28-2023 10:46 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2023 4:13 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 03-16-2023 9:08 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9524
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 267 of 302 (907815)
02-28-2023 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Tangle
02-28-2023 11:03 AM


Re: An actual economist has thoughts on Dalio
332 million people in the USA. Three people have more wealth that 166 million of them put together. How the fuck is that Christian? How can anyone vote for that kind of society? What's more why do poor people vote for it? Are they really that ignorant? (Rhetorical.)

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2023 11:03 AM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 268 of 302 (908464)
03-15-2023 10:08 PM


Banking
There is no major banking problem ... yet. The world media, all of it, is bound to talk us into one.
Banking and markets float on two things: greed and perception.
The SVB situation is not a banking meltdown but a normal business failure capitalism expects. The reaction of the fed to take receivership to stop a run before the bank defaulted is good but the reaction of the politicians, including Yellen and Powell, border on surprise which is being magnified by a disaster-seeking media into panic.
They are going to stir sensitivity to every minor bank and business loss around the world magnifying the emotion to panic. Somewhere in some community there will eventually be a panic at some bank leading to a wider national bank run of unprecedented scale.
I don't think people are working to stop this. Everything I see seeks to exacerbate the negative even back to old Roosevelt quotes given in the midst of a real social collapse. The media is fanning both the greed and the perception flames.
These guys are going to talk us into a banking collapse. Yes, it's time to panic.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 03-15-2023 11:16 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 269 of 302 (908469)
03-15-2023 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by AZPaul3
03-15-2023 10:08 PM


Frontline PBS Exposes The Problem.
In resonse to your questions, Frontline PBS had a timely documentary that explains to you ignorant elitists why I know more than you do about finance!
Age of Easy Money (full documentary) | FRONTLINE
Granted I could not articulate my beliefs as well as the documentary, but you be the judge about the scope of the problem. Yes, you all can blame the Republicans, but Powell and Yellin did not help the situation at all.
Back in 2008, Obama and the Fed should have let the banking system fail!
2008 Protester:
Banks Got Bailed Out! We Got Sold Out!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by AZPaul3, posted 03-15-2023 10:08 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Theodoric, posted 03-15-2023 11:57 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9257
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 270 of 302 (908470)
03-15-2023 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Phat
03-15-2023 11:16 PM


Re: Frontline PBS Exposes The Problem.
Why do you think this doc supports your claims?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 03-15-2023 11:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 03-16-2023 8:16 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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