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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 117 of 302 (903312)
12-08-2022 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
12-06-2022 2:36 PM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You don't get to decide what's "necessary".
The people decide what's necessary.
But you don't like the people. You don't want to be equal with them.
Phat writes:
According to Dalio's video, Liberals by and large want to redistribute. Conservatives want to maintain.
Another reason why you should throw Dalio out the window. Conservatives want to maintain their privilege. That's THEIR privilege, not yours.
Phat writes:
f you raise my taxes beyond a reasonable level, I will lobby to have you voted out.
Apparently YouTube hasn't had any videos to show you the results of the recent mid-term elections. It's YOUR bunch that is being voted out.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 12-06-2022 2:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 119 of 302 (903315)
12-08-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
12-07-2022 9:38 AM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
My argument focuses on Liberal Authoritarianism and control.
Stop talking about authoritarianism. You don't know what you're talking about.
Phat writes:
They do have a point in that there is no reason for a man such as Bezos or Musk to even stay in this country if the people vote to supertax their wealth (rather than giving them business perks)
More important, there is no reason to allow them to do business in a country that they refuse to support with their taxes. There's your beloved "offshore system" again, where they take their vast profits out of the country.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 9:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 120 of 302 (903316)
12-08-2022 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
12-07-2022 12:32 PM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
How is making the working class pay ever larger bills going to be the tide that raises all boats?
I have explained this to you before: Money circulates.
I give spare change to a homeless person. He spends it on drugs. The drug dealer buys groceries at Safeway. The government taxes Safeway and spends the money on welfare. The welfare recipients buy groceries at Safeway. Safeway pays you. You pay your rent. Your landlord buys groceries at Safeway.
Taxes paid to the government don't just disappear into a hole.
Tax cuts for the rich DO go into a hole (overseas).

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 12:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 121 of 302 (903317)
12-08-2022 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
12-07-2022 1:52 PM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
Taq writes:
We have more than enough money to put all homeless people into homes.
Who is "we"?
Our city government calculated that it would take $122.5 million to "end homelessness" in the city. That would require a tax increase of $40.59 per month ($487.08 annually) per homeowner in 2023 and $11.90 per month ($142.80 annually) in 2024.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 1:52 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 122 of 302 (903318)
12-08-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Phat
12-08-2022 5:24 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
I believe that even in a national crisis, the government has no right to nationalize everyone's private wealth.
Your belief is wrong. The government has a legal right to do whatever the Constitution doesn't forbid. And it has a moral right (and duty) to do whatever the electorate elects them to do.
Phat writes:
He [ringo] will appeal to emotionalism...
See above. I appealed to the Constitution.
Phat writes:
I stand on the right to private property and individual liberty over and above group cohesiveness.
That's a completely un-Christian stance.
Phat writes:
Confiscatory taxation...
Is a glitch in your mind.
Phat writes:
... infringes on individual liberty and private property rights.
ALL government is an infringement on individual liberty and private property rights. All SOCIETY is an infringement on individual liberty and private property rights.
Remember our member Petrophysics? We haven't seen him here since he said he voted for Trump in 2016 because he did everything he promised (BEFORE he was elected, mind you.) That genius Petrophysics claims to be completely self-made with no responsibility to society. I asked him if he built the university where he learned about petrophysics or if he built the roads that he drove on to get to that university. I got no answer.
And I don't suppose I'll get an answer from you either. You'll go on blathering about how you have no obligation to society.
Phat writes:
When the global economy tanks,(and it will within 5 years)...
How many years have you been predicting that? And that "5 years" keeps receding into the future.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 12-08-2022 5:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 123 of 302 (903319)
12-08-2022 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Phat
12-08-2022 6:35 AM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
My theory is that the Democrats want the gold/money available for public interest above private interest...
Will you ever get it through your head that the "private interest" that you tout is not YOUR interest? You're like the poor whites who supported slavery even though it was AGAINST their own interests.
Phat writes:
I can only say that the IMF and most global Central Banks still own (and are buying) more gold.
I own macaroni.
Phat writes:
Commodities are always a safe harbor in an economic storm.
USEFUL commodities are a safe harbor, things that people NEED, like food. Invest your money in pork bellies.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 12-08-2022 6:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 135 of 302 (903380)
12-09-2022 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Phat
12-08-2022 2:57 PM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
nwr writes:
Why is it that you don't credit FDR with bringing us that prosperity?
I'll give him 1/3 credit. Churchill and Stalin get the other two-thirds. And it was WW II and the war effort that made America an Empire...
So you should give Hitler credit too. (By the way, Hitler was an authoritarian.)

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Phat, posted 12-08-2022 2:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 137 of 302 (903384)
12-09-2022 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
12-08-2022 4:03 PM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
My point is that the allied block had both conservatives and liberals involved in the war effort.
Next are you going to make the point that water is wet?
Of course there were both liberals and conservatives on the Allied side. If you had read your own wiki quote, you would know that Churchill himself was both a Liberal and a Conservative.
Also, you should be aware that the British Conservatives of the past were not the raving lunatic scum-sucking "conservatives" in your Republican Party today.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 12-08-2022 4:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:26 AM ringo has replied
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 138 of 302 (903385)
12-09-2022 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Phat
12-09-2022 9:41 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Phat writes:
Why are you so impressed with college degrees?
Because you have to do the work to get one. You have to take classes you don't want to take and hear ideas you don't want to hear. You can't just turn a semester off like a YouTube video and find another one that you like better.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 9:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:53 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 142 of 302 (903389)
12-09-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:26 AM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
We have discussed authoritarianism before.
Not much of a discussion. You call me authoritarian without knowing what it means.
Phat writes:
FDR(Democrat) seizes the publics gold....
I don't care what you think about gold.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 2:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 143 of 302 (903390)
12-09-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:38 AM


Re: Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
Phat writes:
Apart from Trump and populism, what specifically is bad about the Republican Party of today?
As I said in another place: That's like asking what floats a boat apart from the water?
What more do you need?
The Republicans let Trump get away with his crimes. What more do you need? They obstruct Congress. What more do you need?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 10:51 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 147 of 302 (903394)
12-09-2022 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:53 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Phat writes:
Lets pretend that you are the teacher. The subject is economics and political ideology.
‚Äč
Assign me a couple of books that I wont like.
I haven't read much about economics or political ideology, so I can't recommend much reading. Somebody else probably can.
Phat writes:
Give me some work to do.
I just wish you'd respond to more of what I say.
Phat writes:
... keeping up with the unified peanut gallery can be exhausting!
There's no "unified" peanut gallery.
Phat writes:
... I doubt he is selling the book to make money. He gives his information away for free, for crying out loud!
Lots of celebrities who don't need the money write books. What else are celebrities known for? Ego.
Phat writes:
And I would argue that he is far from ignorant regarding economics.
You're hardly in a position to decide who's ignorant about economics.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 154 of 302 (903428)
12-10-2022 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Phat
12-09-2022 2:30 PM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You call me authoritarian without knowing what it means.
I thought i used the Dictionary!
quote:
"the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom."
When have I ever suggested anything resembling that?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
I don't care what you think about gold.
Well I don't care what you think of macaroni either.
I don't bore you in every post blathering about macaroni.
Phat writes:
And if the government seized your macaroni, you might then learn what I see authoritarianism as.
That does illustrate what you don't understand about authoritarianism.
Phat writes:
What if they seized your stored up box of macaroni, offered you 25 cents for it, then raised the official price of macaroni to $1.00?
That's a worthless what-if. Obviously, I would pay it.
And it has nothing to do with authoritariansim.
What if the government lowered the speed limit to 55 mph?
What if the government taxed liquor and tobacco?
What if the government taxed gasoline?
What if the government taxed everything you buy?
You need to learn that everything the government does is not necessarily authoritarian.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 2:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 156 of 302 (903430)
12-10-2022 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
12-10-2022 10:41 AM


Re: Understanding the purpose of government
Phat writes:
It only makes sense that a common trait of a common interest is to protect individual wealth as well as community "wealth". Right?
Wrong.
The "common good" is not served by individual wealth. Individual wealth subtracts from community wealth. Your beloved "offshore system" streals from the community wealth in favor of individual wealth.
When are you going to stop supporting slavery the rich at your own expense?
Phat writes:
(unless you are a far left Marxist.)
Stop spouting far-right propaganda and learn what Marxism is.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 10:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 11:15 AM ringo has replied
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 11:26 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 158 of 302 (903432)
12-10-2022 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Phat
12-10-2022 10:51 AM


Re: Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
What more do you need?
I need a bi-partisan government.
Stop trying to evade.
In Message 141 you asked, "Apart from Trump and populism, what specifically is bad about the Republican Party of today?"
In Message 142 I replied, "The Republicans let Trump get away with his crimes. What more do you need? They obstruct Congress. What more do you need?"
We were talking about what is bad about the Republican Party. So answer the question I asked: What do you need besides letting Trump get away with his crimes and general obstruction of Congress?
Phat writes:
I need a bi-partisan government. I need a two-party system.
So you DON'T need a party that obstructs the duly-elected party in power.
Phat writes:
I don't "need" one collective of "we".
Have you ever heard of co-operation? Have you ever heard of compromise?
The whole idea of democracy is to give diverse viewpoints a say.
Phat writes:
Why? Because *we* often disagree.
Of course we do. Do you want to just ride rough-shod over minority ideas? Again, the point of democracy IS "we", not "me".
Phat writes:
I wont simply have a gang of"we" telling me what I must do...
You damn well WILL do what the government says. Who do you think you are? Che Guevara?
Phat writes:
... in the name of ...well take your pick:
in the name of humanity. (that's a laugh!)
Your contempt for humanity is well-known. It's one of the ugliest characteristics of your ugly religion.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 10:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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