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Author Topic:   The Problem of Suffering
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 91 of 107 (898539)
09-25-2022 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 2:48 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
You were complaining about us creating dead matter with each other, the source of life.

What is that? Irony? IDK because I do not usually analyze and use such adjectives.
You asked if there was a better possibility than nature red in tooth and claw. I suggested one. You don't have to squirm so hard to get out of it.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:48 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 92 of 107 (898540)
09-25-2022 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
09-25-2022 3:36 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
You must be one of the 4%.
I have no way of thinking as you do.
How would you apply --- though shalt not kill --- in a real situation, --- if killing as a concept is not dualistic, with an extreme evil end, and another end where killing it might be ok.
Just talking humans BTW.
Regards
DL
P.S.
This reminds me of a Christian who justified genocide by saying that sometimes, even to a God who can cure everything, genocide is the best option.
Rather a counterintuitive idea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 11:04 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 12:04 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 93 of 107 (898541)
09-25-2022 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
09-25-2022 3:39 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Eh, ditto for most, I hope.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 3:39 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 94 of 107 (898621)
09-27-2022 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 4:03 PM


Dualism or Double Standards?
4% of what?
GIA writes:
How would you apply --- though shalt not kill --- in a real situation, --- if killing as a concept is not dualistic, with an extreme evil end, and another end where killing it might be ok.

I would apply it personally as just that: Don't Kill! This leads to many questions. After all, armies kill. Police kill. But I don't understand your concept of dualism. What precisely do you mean? It sounds to me more like a double standard. Ask any conscientious objector.

Edited by Phat, : added more thoughts


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 4:03 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 12:55 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 95 of 107 (898631)
09-27-2022 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 4:03 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
if killing as a concept is not dualistic, with an extreme evil end, and another end where killing it might be ok.
You have a strange notion of what dualism means. You just described a spectrum, not a duality. A dualistic concept is black and white, not a continuum with a lot of gays.
Killing certainly has a lot of gray areas. It is not dualistic.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 4:03 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 1:02 PM ringo has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 96 of 107 (898636)
09-27-2022 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Phat
09-27-2022 11:04 AM


Re: Dualism or Double Standards?
This shows the 4% you want to belong to but do not, in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IqYHiejTVM
To your not killing.
Would you not kill one life to save many?
If not, ---- disrespect to a moral coward.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 11:04 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 12:56 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 99 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 1:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 97 of 107 (898637)
09-27-2022 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Greatest I am
09-27-2022 12:55 PM


Re: Dualism or Double Standards?
are you referring to the trolley car dilemma?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 12:55 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 98 of 107 (898639)
09-27-2022 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ringo
09-27-2022 12:04 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Again, on a graph between dualistic points, there can be many degrees.
The first biblical dualistic hint might be the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Pick anything evil and tell us if ot is only black or white.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 12:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 1:07 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 99 of 107 (898640)
09-27-2022 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Greatest I am
09-27-2022 12:55 PM


Re: Dualism or Double Standards?
My words do not need any other analogy.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 12:55 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 3:28 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 100 of 107 (898643)
09-27-2022 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Greatest I am
09-27-2022 1:02 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Again, on a graph between dualistic points, there can be many degrees.
Again, that is not dualism.
Greatest i am writes:
The first biblical dualistic hint might be the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Pick anything evil and tell us if ot is only black or white.
Of course good and evil are not either black or white. Therefore, it is not a dualistic situation. Black, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, white is NOT two alternatives.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 1:02 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 1:20 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 101 of 107 (898646)
09-27-2022 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by ringo
09-27-2022 1:07 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Thanks for this.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 1:07 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 102 of 107 (898654)
09-27-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
09-25-2022 3:50 PM


Predicting Our Destiny
ringo writes:
Don't be stupid. Look up "disservice".
It means harm or a harmful action.
Thus, you said:
It would be a disservice to evolution to try to predict where it will go.
Si in other words, it would be harmful to try and predict where evolution will go. Evolution is not a living "it". Humans by nature try and predict things...like the weather, a political race, or the future effects of harmful chemicals. We are trying to determine our future. That in and of itself is not harmful.
In addition, I do not believe that the future of the universe is random. It has a definite destiny.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 3:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 3:36 PM Phat has replied
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 10:07 PM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7324
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 103 of 107 (898657)
09-27-2022 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Greatest I am
09-27-2022 1:03 PM


Re: Dualism or Double Standards?
My words do not need any other analogy.
Your words are false and your head needs a psyshrink. You are spouting absolute nonsense.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 1:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7324
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 104 of 107 (898658)
09-27-2022 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
09-27-2022 3:20 PM


Re: Predicting Our Destiny
In addition, I do not believe that the future of the universe is random. It has a definite destiny.
The universe definitely does have a destiny, but no one knows what that will be. At present the going consensus is that 10super large number of eons from now, when the last photon flatlines its energy potential, the universe will cease to exist.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 3:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 4:03 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 105 of 107 (898663)
09-27-2022 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by AZPaul3
09-27-2022 3:36 PM


Re: Predicting Our Destiny
If so, will both matter and energy cease to exist? (Consensuswise of course)

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 3:36 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 5:01 PM Phat has not replied

  
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