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Author Topic:   The Problem of Suffering
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 61 of 107 (898477)
09-24-2022 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
09-24-2022 9:16 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Did we have an actual issue???
I must have missed it.
How about a recap.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-24-2022 9:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:14 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 62 of 107 (898478)
09-24-2022 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by AZPaul3
09-23-2022 3:38 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Moral people know the difference.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AZPaul3, posted 09-23-2022 3:38 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by AZPaul3, posted 09-24-2022 11:57 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7324
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 63 of 107 (898479)
09-24-2022 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Greatest I am
09-24-2022 9:50 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Religious nutjobs fantasize a difference.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Greatest I am, posted 09-24-2022 9:50 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 64 of 107 (898498)
09-25-2022 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Greatest I am
09-24-2022 9:49 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Did we have an actual issue???
in Message 35, you said, "If you have any suggestions to do better for life than the evolutionary system we live in, please offer it," and in Message 46 I replied, "We humans don't make toys that eat each other." That is, a system in which the members DON't eat each other is better than a system in whic they do - e.g. evolutuion.
Now, do you have anything intelligent to say about that?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 09-24-2022 9:49 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:17 PM ringo has replied
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:36 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 65 of 107 (898499)
09-25-2022 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:14 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
I suppose that you are NOT referring to Holy Communion

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 66 of 107 (898501)
09-25-2022 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
09-24-2022 9:16 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
ringo, addressing GIA writes:
In the analogy, God is playing with them. Try addressing the issue honestly.
Reminds me of these scriptures:
quote:
Isaiah 64:8 ESV -But now, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.
Isaiah 45:9 ESV-“Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles?
Jeremiah 18:1-23 ESV-The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will let you hear my words.” So I went down to the potter's house, and there he was working at his wheel. And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter's hand, and he reworked it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do.
Romans 9:21 ESV-Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (you would argue that this proves such a God is evil )
Isaiah 29:16 ESV-You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay, that the thing made should say of its maker, “He did not make me”; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, “He has no understanding”?
Jeremiah 18:6 ESV-
“O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? declares the Lord. Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-24-2022 9:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:35 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 67 of 107 (898502)
09-25-2022 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
09-25-2022 2:17 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
I suppose that you are NOT referring to Holy Communion
Certainly not. What train of thought could possibly go so far off the rails as to get you there?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:17 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:41 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 68 of 107 (898503)
09-25-2022 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
09-25-2022 2:25 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
Reminds me of these scriptures:
It shouldn't.
It's a completely separate issue. I'm not talking about the clay telling the potter what to do. I'm saying that a sensible potter doesn't make pots that smash each other.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:48 PM ringo has replied
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:55 PM ringo has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 69 of 107 (898504)
09-25-2022 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:14 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Ah.
Thanks for this.
Intelligent is an opinion and polarity today make all those suspects.
In this realm of yours, how is growth and reproduction achieved?
Our reality and natural conditions are a proof of concept for the energy produced by the suns being consumed in a natural death pattern that includes us.
This consummation, we call death.
We then feed new life.
That is evolution.
What does your stagnant imagined realm produce or evolve into?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 3:07 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 70 of 107 (898506)
09-25-2022 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:30 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Many here suffer that trait.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:30 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 71 of 107 (898507)
09-25-2022 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:35 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
If our natures are not from a supernatural God, then nature is our creator.
You are saying that nature is not sensible and that would be correct.
Nature has inadvertently found a way to produce intelligent life from dead matter.
You were complaining about us creating dead matter with each other, the source of life.
What is that? Irony? IDK because I do not usually analyze and use such adjectives.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:58 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 4:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 72 of 107 (898509)
09-25-2022 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:35 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
ringo writes:
I'm saying that a sensible potter doesn't make pots that smash each other.
Remember "It's A Wonderful Life?"
Mr.Potter wanted to own the whole town. He wanted to smash all competitors.
Back then, more people believed in a good God. You and jar seem to believe that IF God exists, He is both good and evil.
Greatest I AM seems to think that humans are as close to God as we can get, but while he decrees Religion and the God concept as evil, he himself acts rather ungodlike at times.
And I don't buy jars idea that God is "learning on the job". If anything, that would have been Jesus.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 3:16 PM Phat has replied
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 4:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 73 of 107 (898511)
09-25-2022 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 2:48 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
GIA writes:
If our natures are not from a supernatural God, then nature is our creator.
If so, where did this whole Greatest I AM come from? If anything, humans are evolving... possibly into as close to a God as we can get, but it is WE who are learning on the job. You, for example, are learning not to cuss opponents out as much.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:48 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 3:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 74 of 107 (898512)
09-25-2022 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 2:36 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
In this realm of yours, how is growth and reproduction achieved?
If the toys aren't eating each other to survive, there's no need for growth or reproduction.
Greatest I am writes:
What does your stagnant imagined realm produce or evolve into?
Why does it need to produce anything? Why does it need to evolve into anything?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 3:28 PM ringo has replied
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:42 PM ringo has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 75 of 107 (898514)
09-25-2022 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
09-25-2022 2:55 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I AM seems to think that humans are as close to God as we can get, but while he decrees Religion and the God concept as evil,
Where did I hint at this?
I live in a dualistic world and usually give religion its due when the opportunity arises.
I am in the religious camp remember.
I have an O.P. being looked at that you might look at some time.
Remember that in a dualistic reality, God creates evil for his pleasure, just as he does for good.
They are the same process as Yin always creates it's Yang.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:55 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:36 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:58 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
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