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Author Topic:   The Problem of Suffering
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 29 of 107 (898326)
09-22-2022 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Tangle
09-21-2022 4:33 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
The problem of evil is just not us recognizing the beauty of our dualistic reality and that there is a lot more good than evil in the world.
Take death.
If it did not happen, reproduction would have to eventually stop, as the world would become overpopulated.
You do not like sin and evil, but you, like Christians, might wonder why Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.
Nature loves how things works, not that she can think, and I would not change a thing.
You should try to see the evolving perfection in our world.
It is the only possible world, given entropy, and is the best world we can possibly have.
We can envision better but it could not be given our history.
That is why Gnostic Christians can see heaven right here and now.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Tangle, posted 09-21-2022 4:33 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Tangle, posted 09-22-2022 12:55 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 09-22-2022 1:05 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 35 of 107 (898372)
09-22-2022 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Tangle
09-22-2022 12:55 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
I spoke of the earth, not heaven
The earth though is heaven to me, given that it is the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world.
If you have any suggestions to do better for life than the evolutionary system we live in, please offer it.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Tangle, posted 09-22-2022 12:55 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 2:35 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 09-23-2022 11:57 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 36 of 107 (898373)
09-22-2022 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taq
09-22-2022 1:05 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Why would you think a supernatural God would care about us?
If a God cared about us, he would not remain a deadbeat dad.
As to suffering, I think it would be quite stupid for a God to sit there and create situations of suffering.
The only source of intentionally inflicted suffering or pain is all from human to human interaction.
Nature hurts us but only inadvertently.
Regards
DL

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Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 37 of 107 (898374)
09-22-2022 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
09-22-2022 3:29 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Ditto.
Reality based thinking is superior to supernatural thinking.
Regards
DL

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Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 39 of 107 (898383)
09-23-2022 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tangle
09-23-2022 2:35 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
My God is not causing all this.
Other Gods are.
My God is fighting it.
Few see the evolving perfection of reality.
We would not have a climate problem if we looked better.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 2:35 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 10:03 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 09-23-2022 12:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 41 of 107 (898387)
09-23-2022 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Tangle
09-23-2022 10:03 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
It is an accurate view of reality, that can actually be argued.
The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 10:03 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 10:56 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 43 of 107 (898389)
09-23-2022 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Tangle
09-23-2022 10:56 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
You seem unable to connect the dots.
Who is God according to what I put already?
If your reading comprehension is low, there is not much more I can say.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 10:56 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 11:31 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 49 of 107 (898407)
09-23-2022 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Tangle
09-23-2022 11:31 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Jesus asked in the bible, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?
He was talking about people and how the holy books showed them to be Gods.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 11:31 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 1:10 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 50 of 107 (898408)
09-23-2022 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
09-23-2022 11:57 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Yes, I have imagination, but not enough to come up with a better way for life than evolution.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 09-23-2022 11:57 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 09-23-2022 1:30 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 52 of 107 (898410)
09-23-2022 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Tangle
09-23-2022 1:10 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
If you believe in a supernatural God, I cannot help you. I do not.
If you think man is the epitome of natural creation, then we are on the same page.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 1:10 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 57 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 2:51 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 54 of 107 (898412)
09-23-2022 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
09-23-2022 1:30 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Toys, without a human playing with them, would be quite worthless.
You promote a worthless system.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 09-23-2022 1:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 09-23-2022 2:12 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-24-2022 9:16 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 58 of 107 (898418)
09-23-2022 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Tangle
09-23-2022 2:51 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
I sell Gnostic Christianity, not Christianity.
We are a moral creed while they are not.
I like the old Christianity that lived before the stupid started to believe in the supernatural.
I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.
What is God? - Big Think
Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&l...
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2022 2:51 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
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Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 61 of 107 (898477)
09-24-2022 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
09-24-2022 9:16 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Did we have an actual issue???
I must have missed it.
How about a recap.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-24-2022 9:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:14 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 62 of 107 (898478)
09-24-2022 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by AZPaul3
09-23-2022 3:38 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Moral people know the difference.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AZPaul3, posted 09-23-2022 3:38 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 69 of 107 (898504)
09-25-2022 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:14 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Ah.
Thanks for this.
Intelligent is an opinion and polarity today make all those suspects.
In this realm of yours, how is growth and reproduction achieved?
Our reality and natural conditions are a proof of concept for the energy produced by the suns being consumed in a natural death pattern that includes us.
This consummation, we call death.
We then feed new life.
That is evolution.
What does your stagnant imagined realm produce or evolve into?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 3:07 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
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