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Author Topic:   The Problem of Suffering
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 11 of 107 (898130)
09-19-2022 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
09-19-2022 1:11 PM


Re: Biology Fails
Phat writes:
To conclude that He is indifferent presupposes that He is obligated to prevent or cure your suffering.
Yup.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 1:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 107 (898259)
09-21-2022 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
09-21-2022 1:11 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
... if one presupposes that GOD exists is what precisely is His job?
From each according to His ability, to each according to His need.
He ought to do whatever He can to help us. And He ought to get whatever He needs from us. So what can we do to Help Him?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 09-21-2022 1:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 107 (898270)
09-21-2022 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
09-21-2022 4:22 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
God has never been benevolent, though.
You're the one who keeps saying that He is "good". You say that Jesus (whom you say is God) is the personification of good.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-21-2022 4:22 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 46 of 107 (898399)
09-23-2022 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Greatest I am
09-22-2022 8:41 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
If you have any suggestions to do better for life than the evolutionary system we live in, please offer it.
We humans don't make toys that eat each other. We like to pretend that our toys are killing each other - but we want the toys back tomorrow so we can pretend again.
Doesn't your god have any imagination?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Greatest I am, posted 09-22-2022 8:41 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 09-23-2022 1:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 47 of 107 (898400)
09-23-2022 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Greatest I am
09-22-2022 8:48 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
If a God cared about us, he would not remain a deadbeat dad.
A lot of deadbeat dads do care about their children. They just don't know HOW to care effectively.
Greatesy I am writes:
Nature hurts us but only inadvertently.
When a lion eats you it's pretty advertent.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Greatest I am, posted 09-22-2022 8:48 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 48 of 107 (898401)
09-23-2022 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Greatest I am
09-23-2022 9:43 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Few see the evolving perfection of reality.
And few see leprechauns.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Greatest I am, posted 09-23-2022 9:43 AM Greatest I am has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 53 of 107 (898411)
09-23-2022 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Greatest I am
09-23-2022 1:02 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Yes, I have imagination, but not enough to come up with a better way for life than evolution.
I suggested one: toys that don't eat each other.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 09-23-2022 1:02 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Greatest I am, posted 09-23-2022 1:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 60 of 107 (898476)
09-24-2022 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Greatest I am
09-23-2022 1:49 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Toys, without a human playing with them, would be quite worthless.
In the analogy, God is playing with them. Try addressing the issue honestly.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Greatest I am, posted 09-23-2022 1:49 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 09-24-2022 9:49 PM ringo has replied
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 64 of 107 (898498)
09-25-2022 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Greatest I am
09-24-2022 9:49 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Did we have an actual issue???
in Message 35, you said, "If you have any suggestions to do better for life than the evolutionary system we live in, please offer it," and in Message 46 I replied, "We humans don't make toys that eat each other." That is, a system in which the members DON't eat each other is better than a system in whic they do - e.g. evolutuion.
Now, do you have anything intelligent to say about that?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 09-24-2022 9:49 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:17 PM ringo has replied
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:36 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 67 of 107 (898502)
09-25-2022 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
09-25-2022 2:17 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
I suppose that you are NOT referring to Holy Communion
Certainly not. What train of thought could possibly go so far off the rails as to get you there?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:17 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:41 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 68 of 107 (898503)
09-25-2022 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
09-25-2022 2:25 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
Reminds me of these scriptures:
It shouldn't.
It's a completely separate issue. I'm not talking about the clay telling the potter what to do. I'm saying that a sensible potter doesn't make pots that smash each other.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:48 PM ringo has replied
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 2:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 74 of 107 (898512)
09-25-2022 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 2:36 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
In this realm of yours, how is growth and reproduction achieved?
If the toys aren't eating each other to survive, there's no need for growth or reproduction.
Greatest I am writes:
What does your stagnant imagined realm produce or evolve into?
Why does it need to produce anything? Why does it need to evolve into anything?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 2:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 3:28 PM ringo has replied
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 79 of 107 (898523)
09-25-2022 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 3:28 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Greatest I am writes:
Not verry entertaining life that.
I am an omnivore but I don't get my entertainment from killing and eating my fellow creatures.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 3:28 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:44 PM ringo has replied
 Message 93 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 4:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 82 of 107 (898528)
09-25-2022 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
09-25-2022 3:42 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
Because we are not efficient as a species where we are at now.
How are we not efficient as a species?
Phat writes:
What do you envision humans "evolving into"?
It would be a disservice to evolution to try to predict where it will go.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:42 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 84 of 107 (898530)
09-25-2022 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Phat
09-25-2022 3:44 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Phat writes:
One would think that humans need to evolve from producing ever better weapons of war.
Weapons of ware are not the problem. Conveniences like plastic water bottles are the problem. We are just getting to the point in our history where more people are dying from the consequences of convenience than from war.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:51 PM ringo has replied

  
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