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Author Topic:   Choosing a faith
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 2191 of 3694 (907997)
03-04-2023 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2184 by GDR
03-04-2023 1:52 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
You and others generally say that you have no beliefs, so you really have no position to defend. You simply reject the views and beliefs of others. Kinda the easy way out.
Resisting peer pressure does not seem like an "easy way out."
However you still presumably have a world view of life based on something. Do you believe that your world view to be true?
I don't see a world view (if there is such a thing) as either true or false. There is no standard by which its truth or falsity can be judged.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity --> -->

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2184 by GDR, posted 03-04-2023 1:52 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2206 by GDR, posted 03-05-2023 8:06 PM nwr has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(7)
Message 2192 of 3694 (908006)
03-05-2023 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2184 by GDR
03-04-2023 1:52 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
GDR writes:
You and others generally say that you have no beliefs, so you really have no position to defend.
Of course we have beliefs! We're not bloody androids; atheists are fully featured humans with the same set of emotions and feelings that you have. WE JUST DON'T BELIEVE IN GODS. You know, exactly like we don't believe if fairies. It has exactly the same effect and meaning in our lives as not believing in elves - ie none whatsoever. I wish you guys could absorb that fact.
You simply reject the views and beliefs of others. Kinda the easy way out.
Yeh right, refusing to go to church as a young teenager was really easy! Pretending to pray in school actually WAS easy but just made the whole thing laughable, listening to those stupid, cringeworthy words. But it wasn't a choice not to believe, it just became an obviously stupid thing to do, so that was that.
But generally, I think you'll find that going along with the flow is a helluva lot easier than fighting against it.
However you still presumably have a world view of life based on something. Do you believe that your world view to be true?
'A world view'. It sounds so legitimate doesn't it? So neat and tidy, a simple summation of everything a person believes, prefers, likes and dislikes. A credo. A set of cliches by which to live our lives.
Look, people are complicated things, they have complex and contradictory ideas about life that religions try to organise for them. It's simple to have a 'world view' when your life is governed by an all seeing, retribution driven, dictator that 'loves' you and a human theistic belief structure to handle the human side of things.
I believe in the institutions humans have created to make our lives better - democracy, a pleural, regulated economy, a health service free at the point of need, life-long education, a balanced and independent criminal justice system, economic fairness and freedom from poverty and all forms of discrimination. I believe in a progressive taxation system that distributes wealth in as fair a way as possible. I believe in safe and warm housing for all. I believe that the polluter should pay and that Trump is a twat.
I could go on, but you could sum it up with "I believe in 'do as you would be done by' but do it by building strong, independent, secular institutions to make it happen".
No god is going to step in and actually do something to help, ie fix everything he broke 'in the beginning'.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2184 by GDR, posted 03-04-2023 1:52 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2193 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 6:41 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 2195 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2023 9:31 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 2207 by GDR, posted 03-05-2023 8:19 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 2216 by Stile, posted 03-07-2023 8:46 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2193 of 3694 (908007)
03-05-2023 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2192 by Tangle
03-05-2023 4:22 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
Our Tangled Fisherman writes:
No god is going to step in and actually do something to help, ie fix everything he broke 'in the beginning'.
Silly Rabbit! God lives in people. People step in. People initiate change and progress. People are the vessels. God Is Spirit. God never broke anything. If so, show the precise scripture that shows Him breaking something. What you will find is that humans behaving badly broke a lot of things. Lucifer initially broke covenant with God and "became" Satan. Along came a walking snake who then tempted an innocent woman. The rest is Herstory!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2192 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2023 4:22 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2194 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2023 7:14 AM Phat has replied
 Message 2196 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-05-2023 11:52 AM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 2194 of 3694 (908008)
03-05-2023 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2193 by Phat
03-05-2023 6:41 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
I think I mentioned that I don't believe in fairies and elves. That goes for all the other childish fantasies that you still hold too.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2193 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 6:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2197 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 2:41 PM Tangle has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(4)
Message 2195 of 3694 (908011)
03-05-2023 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 2192 by Tangle
03-05-2023 4:22 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
How does one give multiple cheers?
Here Tangle. These are for you.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2192 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2023 4:22 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2211 by Phat, posted 03-06-2023 3:22 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 2196 of 3694 (908029)
03-05-2023 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2193 by Phat
03-05-2023 6:41 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
Does it ever occur to you to just shut-the fuck-up once in a while?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2193 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 6:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2198 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 2:43 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2197 of 3694 (908030)
03-05-2023 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2194 by Tangle
03-05-2023 7:14 AM


Illusions and Delusions. What is Real
Tangle writes:
I think I mentioned that I don't believe in fairies and elves.
You may not believe in gravity either for all I know...but just trying stepping off of the roof.
Just as the illusion that is the global fiat money system (that floats the worlds currencies,) what goes up MUST come down.
Did you ever play Rock,Paper,Scissors? The paper smothers the rock. In a fire, however, the paper burns up and the rock remains. That is the essence of your fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2194 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2023 7:14 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2201 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2023 3:39 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2198 of 3694 (908031)
03-05-2023 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2196 by Tanypteryx
03-05-2023 11:52 AM


Re: What's Important enough?
Damselfly writes:
Does it ever occur to you to just shut-the fuck-up once in a while?
Occasionally. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, and all of us seem to have to type.
Its the birds and the bees and the Dragons and the Damsels. You cant argue with reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2196 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-05-2023 11:52 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2199 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-05-2023 2:47 PM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 2199 of 3694 (908032)
03-05-2023 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2198 by Phat
03-05-2023 2:43 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
You should check your meds and sugar level.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2198 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 2:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2200 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 2:56 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2200 of 3694 (908034)
03-05-2023 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2199 by Tanypteryx
03-05-2023 2:47 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
OK. *pulls out meter* ... 199 right now. (12:54 pm on 3/5/23
My overall average is 206. Still a bit high but nowhere near the 300 average that I had 3 months ago. I just ate lunch. (It should drop within range within an hour)
Thanks for caring.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2199 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-05-2023 2:47 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 2201 of 3694 (908037)
03-05-2023 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2197 by Phat
03-05-2023 2:41 PM


Re: Illusions and Delusions. What is Real
You've stopped the critical thinking course haven't you?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2197 by Phat, posted 03-05-2023 2:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 2202 of 3694 (908039)
03-05-2023 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2187 by AZPaul3
03-04-2023 3:14 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
AZPaul3 writes:
What makes you think it has? What makes you think it can?

Other than your wishful thinking, why does this thought exist? Is there anything to indicate that such is possible?
I know this answer won't work for you, but I believe that without it I would be completely self centred and care only about my own survival and well-being.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2187 by AZPaul3, posted 03-04-2023 3:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2203 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2023 7:57 PM GDR has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2203 of 3694 (908040)
03-05-2023 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2202 by GDR
03-05-2023 7:53 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
BS,GDR. You are not that kind of person. Yours is not an injured soul. Just your head is damaged.
You would make an excellent humanist if you could only get your head out of the fantasy.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2202 by GDR, posted 03-05-2023 7:53 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 2204 of 3694 (908041)
03-05-2023 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2188 by nwr
03-04-2023 4:06 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
nwr writes:
I don't know. So what?

There isn't anything I can do about it, so it doesn't seem to matter one way or the other.
I suggest that it is healthy to know that when you sacrifice your own resources for a stranger that it is not all on account of you being a good guy.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2188 by nwr, posted 03-04-2023 4:06 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2205 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2023 8:01 PM GDR has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2205 of 3694 (908042)
03-05-2023 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2204 by GDR
03-05-2023 7:59 PM


Re: What's Important enough?
I suggest that it is healthy to know that when you sacrifice your own resources for a stranger that it is all on account of you being a good guy.
Very good. Yes that is right. No god necessary for a good soul to do good.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2204 by GDR, posted 03-05-2023 7:59 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2208 by GDR, posted 03-05-2023 8:26 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
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