|
Author
|
Topic: Choosing a faith
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
Message 2071 of 3694 (906335)
02-10-2023 3:17 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2063 by ringo
02-09-2023 12:52 PM
|
|
Wasting Tiime Erasing The Blackboard
Were the system (the two-party system) working as it should...as it used to work, the parties would have enough of a consensus to avoid spending 4 years trying to fully undo what the previous group did in their 4 years. (which was likely only a year or so's worth of work since *they* spent 3 years trying to undo the policies of the ones before them!
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2063 by ringo, posted 02-09-2023 12:52 PM | | ringo has not replied |
|
Taq
Member Posts: 10077 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
(2)
| |
| |
| |
|
|
Message 2072 of 3694 (906336)
02-10-2023 3:18 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2070 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:12 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Phat writes: Absence of evidence does not define the conclusion, especially if the story traveled worldwide and has so many adherents today. You may wish it were a myth, however. The Latter Day Saints have spread their beliefs world wide and they are one of the fastest growing religions. Does that mean the events in the Book of Mormon are no longer myths?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2070 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:12 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2073 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:19 PM | | Taq has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 2073 of 3694 (906337)
02-10-2023 3:19 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2072 by Taq
02-10-2023 3:18 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
They have quite a ways to go to match Christianity or Islam.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2072 by Taq, posted 02-10-2023 3:18 PM | | Taq has replied |
|
Taq
Member Posts: 10077 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
|
|
|
Message 2074 of 3694 (906339)
02-10-2023 3:29 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2073 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:19 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Phat writes: They have quite a ways to go to match Christianity or Islam. Have they taught you about the Argument from Popularity fallacy in the class you are taking?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2073 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:19 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2081 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 11:32 PM | | Taq has not replied |
|
nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
|
|
|
Message 2075 of 3694 (906340)
02-10-2023 3:30 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2070 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:12 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
..., especially if the story traveled worldwide and has so many adherents today. The Mormon story has traveled worldwide, and has many adherents today. Why aren't you a Mormon?
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2070 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:12 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2080 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 11:30 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
|
Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
|
|
|
Message 2076 of 3694 (906345)
02-10-2023 6:07 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2073 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:19 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Mormons are christians
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2073 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:19 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2079 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 11:28 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
|
AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8553 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.9
|
|
|
Message 2077 of 3694 (906346)
02-10-2023 6:35 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2070 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:12 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Phat re: resurrection writes: Reality says nothing of the sort. Oh it most certainly does. The is no verified instance of anyone coming back from death. You have only the stories of your religion's fantasies from often badly re-copied scrolls of suspect origin and no independent corroborating sources. You have nothing. Resurrection is an evil myth meant to dazel and cower the minds of the sheep. It is fantasy written in other peoples' blood.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2070 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:12 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Tangle
Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
|
(1)
| |
| |
| |
|
|
Message 2078 of 3694 (906352)
02-10-2023 9:01 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2070 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:12 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Phat writes: Reality says nothing of the sort.
If you are honest about your thinking skills course you'll take notice of what people say, not just automatically try to find a way of rebutting them, regardless of whether the rebuttal is relevant or not. In this case, reality (ie our observations of it) tell us that people do not recover from being properly dead, so yes reality says that people do not get resurrected. We call Christ's alleged resurrection a miracle because it is NOT part of our reality.
Absence of evidence does not define the conclusion, especially if the story traveled worldwide and has so many adherents today. Again, be honest. This is not a rational argument. Things can be true or false regardless of how many people believe or do not believe in them. I'll leave you to find your own examples. Are you prepared to think or not?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2070 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:12 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Maybe in your list of definitions.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 2080 of 3694 (906357)
02-10-2023 11:30 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2075 by nwr
02-10-2023 3:30 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
nwr writes: Why aren't you a Mormon? I was never impressed with the story.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2075 by nwr, posted 02-10-2023 3:30 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 2081 of 3694 (906358)
02-10-2023 11:32 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2074 by Taq
02-10-2023 3:29 PM
|
|
Appeal To Popularity
Taq writes: Have they taught you about the Argument from Popularity fallacy in the class you are taking? No, but I'm familiar with it. In fact, I'll reread it now, so as to support the point you are trying to make.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2074 by Taq, posted 02-10-2023 3:29 PM | | Taq has not replied |
|
Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
|
|
|
Message 2082 of 3694 (906359)
02-10-2023 11:41 PM
|
Reply to: Message 2079 by Phat
02-10-2023 11:28 PM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Actually, by definition they are. Why would you say they are not?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2079 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 11:28 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2083 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 12:13 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: What's Important enough?
According to History.com they are, too...though many Christians disagree, citing several reasons. In order to respect the Appeal to Popularity fallacy, this fact alone does not disqualify Mormonism from "being Christian" but some facts from this article might. To wit: quote:
According to the LDS church, Adam and Eve lived in Daviess County, Missouri after being driven from the Garden of Eden.
Pleeease!  quote:
There are three levels of heaven—celestial, terrestrial and telestial—in Mormonism. Only those in the celestial kingdom will live in God’s presence.
So what good are the other two levels? Remind me of the RCC concept of Purgatory! quote:
Followers don’t recognize the Christian concept of the trinity (God existing in three persons). Instead, they believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate gods.
Sounds a bit like Tritheism.
quote:
Mormons follow a strict healthy lifestyle that doesn’t allow them to consume alcohol, tobacco, coffee or tea.
This is one of their more rational teachings and beliefs.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
|
|
|
Message 2084 of 3694 (906376)
02-11-2023 10:46 AM
|
Reply to: Message 2083 by Phat
02-11-2023 12:13 AM
|
|
Re: What's Important enough?
According to themselves and logic they are. Everything else you post is a No True Scotsman fallacy. The same could be said about your beliefs by other christians. Again your hate, bigotry and disrespespect for the beliefs of others shines through.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2083 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 12:13 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2085 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 5:16 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: What's Important enough?
Theo writes: Again your hate, bigotry and disrespect for the beliefs of others shines through. Nice guys always finish last.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2084 by Theodoric, posted 02-11-2023 10:46 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2