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Author
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Topic: Choosing a faith
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 2056 of 3694 (906215)
02-08-2023 8:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 2055 by GDR
02-08-2023 7:57 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
William Tell, Sun Tzu, Ned Ludd, Pythagoras, Homer, Siddhartha Gautama, Confucius, Laozi are people that either we know were not real or there is no actual evidence for their existence.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2055 by GDR, posted 02-08-2023 7:57 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 2057 of 3694 (906216)
02-08-2023 8:51 PM
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N T Wright
Seeing as how this thread has gone so completely off topic anyway I thought that I would post this. Certainly the best known Christian theologian and historian today in N T Wright. For those of you who might be interested here is a video of Wright arguing for the resurrection. Having read most of Wright's work I have already defended this position myself on EvC. I know we are supposed to post bare links but this is simply a clearer explanation of a position I have already posted. It won't convince anyone here but hopefully it will help to at least give a clearer account of my position.
N T Wright on resurrection
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 2058 of 3694 (906217)
02-08-2023 10:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 2057 by GDR
02-08-2023 8:51 PM
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Re: N T Wright
Christians and non-christians think he is a hack. https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16858THE PROBLEM OF N.T. WRIGHT | VirtueOnline – The Voice for Global Orthodox AnglicanismWhat’s Wrong with Wright: Examining the New Perspective on Paul by Phil Johnson
Nearly Everything Wrong with N. T. Wright Summed Up in One Chapter Heading - Banner of Truth UK Why should we accept anything he writes when his own fellow christians question his views?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2057 by GDR, posted 02-08-2023 8:51 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 2059 of 3694 (906221)
02-09-2023 1:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 2050 by Taq
02-07-2023 10:58 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
So? Just because you cant establish evidence or distinguish a character from a myth doesn't change human behavior.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2050 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 10:58 AM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2061 by Taq, posted 02-09-2023 11:43 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 2060 of 3694 (906222)
02-09-2023 1:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 2053 by ringo
02-07-2023 11:09 AM
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Re: Im going to come across as an entitled ass...but
ringo writes: It's a US problem ONLY. Says who?
ringo writes: It's about YOUR nation doing what's right. Worry about your own nation. Over here, we are split roughly down the middle on these issues. You seem to think that one side writes the rules and the conclusions for everyone. They don't. (This applies to either side, by the way...depending on the specific issue.)
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2053 by ringo, posted 02-07-2023 11:09 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2063 by ringo, posted 02-09-2023 12:52 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10081 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2061 of 3694 (906245)
02-09-2023 11:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 2059 by Phat
02-09-2023 1:25 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Phat writes: Just because you cant establish evidence or distinguish a character from a myth doesn't change human behavior. Human behavior does include believing in things that are false.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2059 by Phat, posted 02-09-2023 1:25 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2062 of 3694 (906260)
02-09-2023 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 2055 by GDR
02-08-2023 7:57 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
GDR writes: You guys do like to bring up characters that were never meant to be taken as historical...
You like to pretend you know who was "meant" to be taken as historical.
GDR writes: ... and compare that to writings that were written to be taken as historical.
As I have said to you before, stories about miracles and resurrections were NOT "written to be taken" as historical.
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2055 by GDR, posted 02-08-2023 7:57 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2064 by GDR, posted 02-09-2023 2:41 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2063 of 3694 (906266)
02-09-2023 12:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 2060 by Phat
02-09-2023 1:29 AM
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Re: Im going to come across as an entitled ass...but
Phat writes: ringo writes: It's a US problem ONLY.
Says who?
It should be obvious to all but the dimmest wit. Only the US decides what the US does.
Phat writes: Worry about your own nation.
I told you that MY nation is trying to solve OUR problem but you insist it can't be done.
Phat writes: You seem to think that one side writes the rules and the conclusions for everyone.
That's EXACTLY how it works. Have you never HEARD of democracy?
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2060 by Phat, posted 02-09-2023 1:29 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2071 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:17 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 2064 of 3694 (906288)
02-09-2023 2:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 2062 by ringo
02-09-2023 12:33 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
ringo writes: As I have said to you before, stories about miracles and resurrections were NOT "written to be taken" as historical.
I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. I agree that ev en though they were written to be read as historical is not make them historical. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2062 by ringo, posted 02-09-2023 12:33 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2065 by ringo, posted 02-10-2023 11:23 AM | | GDR has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2065 of 3694 (906319)
02-10-2023 11:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 2064 by GDR
02-09-2023 2:41 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
GDR writes: I agree that ev en though they were written to be read as historical is not make them historical.
I don't see how you can conclude that "they were written to be read as historical". There are no resurrections in history.
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2064 by GDR, posted 02-09-2023 2:41 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2066 by GDR, posted 02-10-2023 11:53 AM | | ringo has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 2066 of 3694 (906323)
02-10-2023 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 2065 by ringo
02-10-2023 11:23 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Ya, just the one.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2065 by ringo, posted 02-10-2023 11:23 AM | | ringo has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8558 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.9
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Message 2067 of 3694 (906324)
02-10-2023 11:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 2066 by GDR
02-10-2023 11:53 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Cute. But reality says otherwise. Ringo is correct.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2066 by GDR, posted 02-10-2023 11:53 AM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2070 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:12 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2068 of 3694 (906325)
02-10-2023 11:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 2066 by GDR
02-10-2023 11:53 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
GDR writes: Ya, just the one.
So you can't say, "written to be read as historical", because there was nothing to compare it to.
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2066 by GDR, posted 02-10-2023 11:53 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2069 by GDR, posted 02-10-2023 3:03 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 2069 of 3694 (906333)
02-10-2023 3:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 2068 by ringo
02-10-2023 11:58 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
ringo writes: So you can't say, "written to be read as historical", because there was nothing to compare it to.
Well, you can compare it to everyone else who has died never to be heard from again.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2068 by ringo, posted 02-10-2023 11:58 AM | | ringo has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 2070 of 3694 (906334)
02-10-2023 3:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 2067 by AZPaul3
02-10-2023 11:57 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Reality says nothing of the sort. Absence of evidence does not define the conclusion, especially if the story traveled worldwide and has so many adherents today. You may wish it were a myth, however.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2067 by AZPaul3, posted 02-10-2023 11:57 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2072 by Taq, posted 02-10-2023 3:18 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 2075 by nwr, posted 02-10-2023 3:30 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 2077 by AZPaul3, posted 02-10-2023 6:35 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 2078 by Tangle, posted 02-10-2023 9:01 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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