|
Author
|
Topic: Probability of It Being Their Own Particular God
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
Message 2 of 30 (895926)
07-26-2022 12:44 AM
|
Reply to: Message 1 by dwise1
07-25-2022 11:55 PM
|
|
The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
dwise1 writes:
Believers tend to play rather fast and loose with the word, "God". Basically, whenever they hear or use it they think that it refers only to their own particular ideas of "God". When we ask them which god they're talking about, they'll always say something like "There's only one God" even though every "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" religion have an official policy of it being the same god, believers do not conduct themselves according to that policy. "God" is as much to do with the accompanying religion and theology, if not much more so. So, given about 45,000 different Christian denominations and sects, there are effectively 45,000 different versions of "God" in Christianity alone. On the one hand, God is relatively unique to each individual. On the other hand, of the 45,000 Christian denominations, most have shared beliefs within the larger frame of Christian orthodoxy. Perhaps the devil is in the details, and some branches (or clubs, as jar likes to call them) of Christianity claim exclusivity. It has always been this way. Paul even talked about it.
1 Corinthians 3:4 writes: For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man? 4For when one of you says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men? 5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his role.… Now...one could take this a step further within a critically thinking relativistic viewpoint and say "What then is Jesus Christ? Perhaps some would see it as Christ being merely on the level of Mohammed, Krishna, and Buddha. Some even joke that the frickin flying spaghetti Monster, Long John Silver, and any created character within Role Playing Gaming could equally qualify.
dwise1 writes: Pascal maintained that believing in his god and theology costs you nothing, but that is not true of his own theology, nor of most of the theologies that exist. What if you could not pursue your dream career because your chosen god forbade it? Or marry your one true love (your "media naranja", or "half orange", as my wife's grandmother had put it) because your god forbade you to marry that kind of person? Or learn the sciences because your god forbade you to study the truth? Or to think for yourself because your god forbade it? Or had to suffered from a horrible disease or injury or had to watch your child die horribly of a treatable disease because your god forbade the medical treatment for it? For many of us, that would be too great a cost to bear.
It all boils down to belief. Evidence is lacking in all theologies except for behavior. (in which case I fail miserably and just lost the game for Coach Jesus)  I know a kid at work whose Dad also works with me. They as a family believe in the Hari Krishna's offshoot of Buddhism. Based on behavior, the sons of Ravi and Jaya are among the best behaved, humblest, and polite representations of their family morals. The son's names are Hari(studying to be a Doctor) and Krishna. Chalk one up for behavior! I dont think that math can pin down the probability.
Did math always exist before humans evolved enough to find uses for it? It is becoming my contention that if there is a real God amongst many pretenders, this God will find us. We won't be able to find God. And if, as atheists/non-believers we forget trying to adapt a God, I suppose it still is up to God whether or not to accept everyone or simply take our training wheels off and disappear.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by dwise1, posted 07-25-2022 11:55 PM | | dwise1 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 7 by ringo, posted 07-26-2022 12:09 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 10 by Theodoric, posted 07-26-2022 1:31 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 15 by dwise1, posted 07-27-2022 2:16 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 4 of 30 (895928)
07-26-2022 2:34 AM
|
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
07-26-2022 1:18 AM
|
|
The financial apologists can be examined.
Those of you, like Dwise1, who are(is) good with numbers know full well that you cant use them to prove God and to lay odds on the most likely "God" candidate. I would love to have the claims of a couple of the financial apologists examined dispassionately. Essentially as a group, they argue that the West uses a Debt Based Economy anchored by no particular hard asset. The Central Banks globally are not uniformly on one side(at least in my mind) but the dollar based system, in use since Bretton Woods, does in fact have a basket of familiar currencies. Through the recent sanctions against Russia, the whole world got a glimpse as to how the US Dollar is being "weaponized". This is also why the precious metals are being suppressed in some way, allowing for a stronger dollar.| The BRIC nation's two main members, Russia and especially China, have been buying gold for a long time. China buys a lot of the US debt since we are one of their main trading partners. Keep in mind, all of you wartime strategists, that China is not seen as a concrete enemy so much as a worthy adversary in regards to global dominance. This recent move to unify with BRIC and actually form a reserve currency based on hard assets like precious metals and rare earth minerals could bite us in the behind a few years down the road IF foreign nations no longer buy our Treasury notes and other assets. The debt-based dollar system could collapse quite suddenly within the next ten years.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2022 1:18 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 5 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2022 3:10 AM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 6 of 30 (895933)
07-26-2022 10:16 AM
|
Reply to: Message 5 by PaulK
07-26-2022 3:10 AM
|
|
Re: The financial apologists can be examined.
PaulK writes: This is grossly off-topic. Take it to the correct thread. I will. I was just responding indirectly to dwise1s attempt to calculate the probability of one God of choice mathematically. My argument was that if math is to be used, it is quite applicable to financial apologetics but not so much to the real God (if applicable) and a set probable number of pretenders. For starters, I cant see how all of the candidates should be examined as if the probabilities were absolutely equal among them. Even Vegas would not make such even odds.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2022 3:10 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by ringo, posted 07-26-2022 12:12 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 9 by dwise1, posted 07-26-2022 12:36 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 12 of 30 (895954)
07-27-2022 1:47 AM
|
Reply to: Message 10 by Theodoric
07-26-2022 1:31 PM
|
|
Re: The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
And you guys think *I'm* the ignorant one!  You want to believe that those facts are true. You may have even found *evidence* to a limited degree. But at the end of the day, you have nothing. And when you see the failures of human effort leading us into another series of tough times, you will ignorantly blame the Republicans. You and many other people believe collectively in some sort of "Utopian" vision. Soon, there will be nothing but rocks for all of you to hide under. I hope not. There won't be any objective evidence to warn us. I fear that your *evidence* is as manipulated by your people globally as is the Republican counter-agenda. Concerning your evidence, do you really believe that scholars such as Bruce L.Shelley could write 500 page books on church History with NO EVIDENCE to go on? I'd like anyone to write so much as 100 fictitious pages on a Spaghetti Monster. Your Noodle would be cooked!  I must go now, my rock awaits. Edited by Phat, : edited my post. Edited by Phat, .
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by Theodoric, posted 07-26-2022 1:31 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 16 by nwr, posted 07-27-2022 8:33 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 07-27-2022 9:20 AM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 20 by ringo, posted 07-27-2022 12:03 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 13 of 30 (895955)
07-27-2022 1:58 AM
|
Reply to: Message 7 by ringo
07-26-2022 12:09 PM
|
|
Re: The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
ringo writes: Why would he feel a need to "find us"? And how did he lose us in the first place? He never left us. We left Him. We thought we could do it better. Again, we won't be able to find God.
ringo writes: Nor will we be able to find leprechauns or Loch Ness monsters or bigfeet or the Fountain of Youth or a cheap method of turning base metals into gold or... If Monotheism turns out to be true, which I believe it is, God will find us. Leprechauns, Bigfeets, and spaghetti monsters likely won't....except in our warped imaginations. I wouldn't be surprised if most of you imagine that aliens are more likely to find us than the Creator of all seen and unseen.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by ringo, posted 07-26-2022 12:09 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 19 by ringo, posted 07-27-2022 11:48 AM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 28 by Parasomnium, posted 07-30-2022 5:05 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 14 of 30 (895956)
07-27-2022 2:05 AM
|
Reply to: Message 7 by ringo
07-26-2022 12:09 PM
|
|
Re: The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
DELETE Double Post 
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by ringo, posted 07-26-2022 12:09 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 22 of 30 (896018)
07-28-2022 11:24 PM
|
Reply to: Message 18 by Theodoric
07-27-2022 9:20 AM
|
|
Re: The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
Thankfully I never trusted BitCoin. In fact, it has a little ways further to fall. And I cant afford Gold. Ironically, I am at the mercy of the government. In two more years, I plan to retire. Edited by Phat, : added comments
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 07-27-2022 9:20 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 24 of 30 (896020)
07-29-2022 12:16 AM
|
Reply to: Message 23 by Theodoric
07-28-2022 11:36 PM
|
|
Re: The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
I've never invested in Crypto. It too is expensive. And in my opinion worthless. It may be a bit blasphemous to talk of material investments in a thread about gods.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 07-28-2022 11:36 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
|
|
|
Message 26 of 30 (896022)
07-29-2022 1:30 AM
|
Reply to: Message 25 by Theodoric
07-29-2022 1:07 AM
|
|
Re: The GOD Equations. A Wise 1 Series
But your anti-fiat currency posts promote crypto and gold Fiat currencies were a bad idea. A digital currency may also end up being a bad idea if it too is fiat. Everyone's money will be tracked. On the other hand, if the US inflates its way out of the national debt, we can save the public from greater grief than inflation. But you guys are partly right. I don't understand money or global finance. I DO know that the BRIC nations have much larger populations than we do and wonder if this will factor against us.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Theodoric, posted 07-29-2022 1:07 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 07-29-2022 7:26 AM | | Phat has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2