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Author | Topic: Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..." | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
YOU have to learn that Darwin isn't the be-all and end-all of evolution. Tany still has to learn the laws of thermodynamics and how to do math. He won't do that chasing bugs.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
Are you physicall incapable of answering a question honestly? You claimed that you "conversed several times with Lenski about his work" and i asked about his reaction. Did he acknowledge verbally that you were right? (It seems pretty clear that he has not acknowledged you in writing.) Or did he say, "Security! Security! There's an escapee from the asylum loose in the building!"?
He can call whomever he wants. Kleinman writes:
So you admit that he still doesn't understand (your drivel about) his own experiment, even after you explained it to him. So, clearly, he does not acknowledge your claims, which is what I've been asking. If he doesn't want to understand his own experiment, that's his prerogative.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
So you are capable of learning. Congratulations. dumdumCome all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Tanypteryx:Tany posts all zero of his papers chasing bugs. That's quite a list.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Oh, that's right, you need to know that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals before you can do the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments. It's the law of biology. And why should anyone know that biological competition is governed by the first law of thermodynamics and that descent with modification is governed by the second law of thermodynamics? Kleinman:Why should he mention me that he doesn't know why competition slows adaptation? I do know and the reason is the first law of thermodynamics, not some imaginary law of biology.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:He certainly got biological competition and descent with modification right. I'm sure you could do much better.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:He hasn't acknowledged one way or the other. But that's the reason, it is the first law of thermodynamics that limits population size. That's the reason. Kleinman:There are lots of people that have read this paper. Fixation and Adaptation in the Lenski E. coli Long Term Evolution Experiment He doesn't have to acknowledge it to make it true.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:You are absolutely right, dumb dumb.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
I have told you at least once that reptiles and birds evolved (past tense) from a common ancestor and that fish and mammals evolved (past tense) from a common ancestor. What do you not understand about that? i will be glad to answer your kindergarten-level questions about evolution.
... Oh, that's right, you need to know that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals... Kleinman writes:
We were talking about him acknowledging you. How could he acknowledge you without mentioning you? (That's mathematics, boy! You can't argue with mathematics!) Why should he mention me that he doesn't know why competition slows adaptation?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
It's true that your ideas were already wrong in Darwin's lifetime. But science didn't end in 1882. Instead of flaunting your ignorance, you should move into the twentieth century. And then when you've learned the biology of the twentieth century, we have another twenty-two years worth as icing on the cake. ringo writes:
He certainly got biological competition and descent with modification right. YOU have to learn that Darwin isn't the be-all and end-all of evolution.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
So, after much pulling of teeth, we're clear on that.
He hasn't acknowledged one way or the other. Kleinman writes:
There are lots of people who have read The Lord of the Rings too. Not many believed it was true.
There are lots of people that have read this paper. Kleinman writes:
And he doesn't have to deny it to make it false. He doesn't have to acknowledge it to make it true.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
And you'll probably learn more by respecting your teachers. ringo writes:
You are absolutely right, dumb dumb. So you are capable of learning. Congratulations.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Since you know so much about biological evolution, could you explain the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail? And why does 3 drug combination therapy work for the treatment of HIV? That should be easy because you know that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals. Kleinman:You should argue the mathematics when it is done like Taq does it. He makes up a system and then chooses variables so the system works but it doesn't model reality. I do the mathematics of real systems such as the Kishony and Lenski experiments and the math explains why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation. I told him why competition slows adaptation, not that competition slows adaptation, it's the first law of thermodynamics.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
ringo:Yep, we learned about DNA and got some measurements of mutation rates, and then got the Kishony and Lenski experiments where nobody does the math for either, except me. And you know much better than the experts in probability theory that this math is wrong.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Don't be silly, I said that I conversed with him. He hasn't acknowledged it yet. Kleinman:That's why more people are reading these papers all the time. They must read it because they don't believe it. Kleinman:That's possible but not likely because the model works at describing his experiment.
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