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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2011 of 2932 (902352)
11-22-2022 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2010 by Kleinman
11-22-2022 7:33 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
I have an email out to him. Let's see if he responds.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2010 by Kleinman, posted 11-22-2022 7:33 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2022 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:16 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10076
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 2012 of 2932 (902353)
11-22-2022 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1968 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 11:40 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
So the only example you could come up with is making the koalas sick by destroying their immune system and possibly driving them to extinction.
That's all I need to counter your lie that retroviruses can't produce ERV's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1968 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 11:40 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2023 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:17 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10076
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 2013 of 2932 (902354)
11-22-2022 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1967 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 11:38 AM


Re: Yet Another Example
Kleinman writes:
So you aren't going to explain how a phage makes UCD possible.
Another liar for Jesus.
Then have them explain why combination therapy works for treating HIV, weeds, and insects, because you certainly can't explain.
All I need to do is cite these papers to counter your lie that recombination plays no part in drug resistance in HIV.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1967 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 11:38 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2024 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:19 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10076
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 2014 of 2932 (902355)
11-22-2022 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1991 by Dredge
11-21-2022 5:00 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Dredge writes:
Tany is just being a good Darwinist ... a good Darwinist ignores any evidence that doesn't conform to Darwinist dictrine.
You would have to present that evidence first before accusing people of ignoring it.
I showed Kleinman an experiment where the rate of beneficial adaptations was 1 in 10 million replications. Look at how he can't even address it, and then continues to claim that the rate is 1 in 1 billion, no matter what.
Look at the lies you peddled from the Discovery Institute dealing with ERV's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1991 by Dredge, posted 11-21-2022 5:00 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2025 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:21 AM Taq has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2015 of 2932 (902356)
11-22-2022 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1974 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 12:29 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
It is easy to understand this better than them, they have no explanation.
Itt's easy to THINK you understand better than them when you have an ego the size of Montana.
Kleinman writes:
In fact, Lenski didn't understand why competition slows adaptation until I explained it to him.
Show us where he acknowledges that.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1974 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 12:29 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2026 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:26 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2016 of 2932 (902358)
11-22-2022 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1991 by Dredge
11-21-2022 5:00 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Dredge writes:
Tany is just being a good Darwinist ...
Get out of the nineteenth century.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1991 by Dredge, posted 11-21-2022 5:00 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 2017 of 2932 (902359)
11-22-2022 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1999 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 5:26 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
I have conversed several times with Lenski about his work and I have explained to him (and you) why competition slows descent with modification.
But did he acknowledge what you said? Or did he call security?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1999 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 5:26 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2027 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:27 AM ringo has replied
 Message 2028 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:28 AM ringo has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8552
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 2018 of 2932 (902365)
11-22-2022 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2008 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 6:52 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Too bad you can't explain how bacteria evolve resistance to an antibiotic and why cancer treatments fail.
We can. You can't.
The papers on such things are all over the internet (google scholar). Your inane explanations were shown to be bogus.
You're a fraud, Kleinman.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2008 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 6:52 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2029 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:32 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 2019 of 2932 (902371)
11-22-2022 4:18 PM


Response from Dr. Lenski.
He's a crank, and I have no interest in further exchanges with him, either directly or indirectly.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2020 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2022 4:45 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 2030 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:33 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 2020 of 2932 (902373)
11-22-2022 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2019 by Theodoric
11-22-2022 4:18 PM


Re: Response from Dr. Lenski.
I think this shows that further discussion with the troll is futile. Also, I call on Admins to monitor and address his abusive behavior and persistent lies.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2019 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2022 4:18 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2021 by nwr, posted 11-22-2022 4:56 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 2031 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:34 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 2021 of 2932 (902374)
11-22-2022 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2020 by Theodoric
11-22-2022 4:45 PM


Re: Response from Dr. Lenski.
I think this shows that further discussion with the troll is futile.
Yes, I pretty much concluded that a while back. I've been resisting any temptation to respond.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2020 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2022 4:45 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2032 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:36 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 362 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2022 of 2932 (902387)
11-23-2022 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2011 by Theodoric
11-22-2022 9:58 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Theodoric:
I have an email out to him. Let's see if he responds.
I doubt he will but I hope he does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2011 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2022 9:58 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 362 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2023 of 2932 (902388)
11-23-2022 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2012 by Taq
11-22-2022 10:30 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman:
So the only example you could come up with is making the koalas sick by destroying their immune system and possibly driving them to extinction.
Taq:
That's all I need to counter your lie that retroviruses can't produce ERV's.

Yeah, your argument makes real sense, only 199,999 retroviral infections to go. This is what you get with 26 years in the lab. No one dies from a retroviral infection, in fact, a germ line cell can have 200k without any harm. This is the kind of garbage you come up with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2012 by Taq, posted 11-22-2022 10:30 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2036 by Taq, posted 11-23-2022 10:32 AM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 362 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2024 of 2932 (902389)
11-23-2022 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 2013 by Taq
11-22-2022 10:32 AM


Re: Yet Another Example
Kleinman:
So you aren't going to explain how a phage makes UCD possible.
Taq:
Another liar for Jesus.

I guess you aren't going to explain that one.
Kleinman:
Then have them explain why combination therapy works for treating HIV, weeds, and insects, because you certainly can't explain.
Taq:
All I need to do is cite these papers to counter your lie that recombination plays no part in drug resistance in HIV.

You cite papers, I cite actual examples. Why doesn't recombination defeat these real examples of combination therapy? And when does recombination or population size defeat these treatments? You simply don't understand how population size affects biological evolution and how frequencies of variants determine the probability of a recombination event occurring. You didn't figure that out with your 26 years of research.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2013 by Taq, posted 11-22-2022 10:32 AM Taq has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 362 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2025 of 2932 (902390)
11-23-2022 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 2014 by Taq
11-22-2022 10:37 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Dredge:
Tany is just being a good Darwinist ... a good Darwinist ignores any evidence that doesn't conform to Darwinist dictrine.
Taq:
You would have to present that evidence first before accusing people of ignoring it.

I showed Kleinman an experiment where the rate of beneficial adaptations was 1 in 10 million replications. Look at how he can't even address it, and then continues to claim that the rate is 1 in 1 billion, no matter what.

Look at the lies you peddled from the Discovery Institute dealing with ERV's.

I said, go for it, show how a phage makes UCD possible and you cry that I don't explain your experiment. Explain to us how this experiment changes descent with modification for a single evolutionary step. You won't because you know it is only a single evolutionary step when the Kishony experiment takes 5 evolutionary steps and Lenski's experiment takes about 100 evolutionary steps. And you are an idiot to think that 200k retroviral infections don't do any harm to a germ line cell. That's just plain stupid. Haven't you learned what HIV does to humans and what your retroviral infection does to koalas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2014 by Taq, posted 11-22-2022 10:37 AM Taq has not replied

  
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