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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 2222 of 2932 (902752)
11-27-2022 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2217 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 12:27 PM


Re: Usable energy
Biologists have no idea what the second law of thermodynamics is or does.
Oh but they do. Millions and millions of them understand how it applies to life and to evolution. And they have access to data, experiments, fossils, museums, and mountains of data which support evolution.
You're a mathematician - you must have studied probability. What are the odds that millions and millions of scientists are all wrong, and the vast mountains of evidence are all invalid, and only you and some text written by a goathearder, high on some wackie baccie 3 or 4 thousand years ago, are right ?
I know where I'm placing my bet.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2217 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 12:27 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2226 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 1:01 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 2225 of 2932 (902755)
11-27-2022 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2220 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 12:34 PM


Re: Usable energy
That looks interesting - I'll see if I can find his work online. Thanks Paul.
No day is wasted when you learn something new.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2220 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 12:34 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2228 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 1:09 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2236 of 2932 (902767)
11-27-2022 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2228 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 1:09 PM


Re: Usable energy
Nope - not an expert, but an intelligent man who trusts the theories and the mountains of evidence of a huge number of highly intelligent scientists, rather than the religiously driven drivel of a single voice, gnashing his teeth in the wilderness.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2228 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 1:09 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2240 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:11 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 2311 of 2932 (902871)
11-28-2022 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2308 by Kleinman
11-28-2022 8:25 AM


Re: Usable energy
The great and wise Theodoric doesn't understand what the multiplication rule of probabilities does to evolution.
Only if you peddle the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2308 by Kleinman, posted 11-28-2022 8:25 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2318 by Kleinman, posted 11-28-2022 4:50 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2471 of 2932 (903402)
12-09-2022 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2469 by Taq
12-09-2022 2:30 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Wow, you really don't know how this works.
It's either that, or he does and he's piling on the snake oil.
I haven't met him, though, so at this stage, I'll stick with a probability of 0.5 on both options.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2469 by Taq, posted 12-09-2022 2:30 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2475 by Kleinman, posted 12-09-2022 4:29 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 2488 of 2932 (903470)
12-10-2022 11:37 PM


And in the meantime, whilst Kleinman tries to peddle his religiously motivated garbage, actual scientists who actually understand how genetics work, have successfully cured a previously incurable cancer:
More evidence (as if any more were needed) as to whom to trust.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2491 by Kleinman, posted 12-11-2022 11:40 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 2502 of 2932 (903504)
12-12-2022 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 2501 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 8:47 AM


But it didn't fail - it successfully removed every cancerous T-cell from her body.
Tell me Kleinman - are you praying that her cancer comes back and that she dies, just so that your bullshit can continue to be peddled ? Or would you rather a 13 year old girl (and after her, many, many more people) survive cancer, as a result of what looks a spectacularly promising basis for widespread cancer treatment ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2501 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 8:47 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2503 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 9:46 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 2504 of 2932 (903507)
12-12-2022 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2503 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 9:46 AM


Read the article in detail and see what they did with the re-engineered T-cells. They're not treating her with drugs - they are re-engineering relevant DNA.
Once again Kleinman - is it more important to you that you are the only person in the whole world who is right, or is it more important that people are able to survive cancer as a result of the actual scientists being right ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2503 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 9:46 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2505 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 10:21 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 2506 of 2932 (903509)
12-12-2022 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2505 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 10:21 AM


Once again, the re-engineered T-cells hunted down and destroyed the cancerous T-cells. This is a revolutionary, brand new treatment based on base editing. It is not based on traditional drug therapy.
Answer my question: is it more important to you that you are right, or more important that all of the scientists are right and save the lives of many more cancer sufferers ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2505 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 10:21 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2508 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 11:10 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2509 of 2932 (903517)
12-12-2022 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 2508 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 11:10 AM


Answer my question: is it more important to you that you are right, or more important that all of the scientists are right and save the lives of many more cancer sufferers ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2508 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 11:10 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2510 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 11:33 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 2511 of 2932 (903521)
12-12-2022 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2510 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 11:33 AM


You are evading and not answering. Answer my question: is it more important to you that you are right, or more important that all of the scientists are right and save the lives of many more cancer sufferers ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2510 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 11:33 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2512 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 12:11 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2514 of 2932 (903526)
12-12-2022 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2512 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 12:11 PM


I am human - I can be both right and wrong about various things, because humans are capable of error.
Do you accept that you are human, and can be both right and wrong about various things, because you are capable of error ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2512 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 12:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2515 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 1:14 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2516 of 2932 (903530)
12-12-2022 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2515 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 1:14 PM


I am asking you if you accept that you can be wrong. You are avoiding answering that simple question. Answer it.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2515 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 1:14 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2517 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 2:34 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2518 of 2932 (903533)
12-12-2022 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2517 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 2:34 PM


You are still not answering the question. Are you capable of being wrong ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2517 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 2:34 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2519 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 3:41 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2520 of 2932 (903536)
12-12-2022 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2519 by Kleinman
12-12-2022 3:41 PM


Actually, scratch that. So you are saying that hundreds of thousands of evidence backed biologists are capable of being wrong, but you're not ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2519 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 3:41 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2521 by Kleinman, posted 12-12-2022 4:16 PM vimesey has replied

  
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