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Author
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Topic: Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 632 of 2932 (899954)
10-21-2022 12:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 612 by Dredge
10-21-2022 2:48 AM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: A statistical impossibility is a probability that is so low as to not be worthy of mentioning.
And in the example you gave, that does not apply. It certainly IS possible that I can win any lottery draw if I have a ticket. I have a chance to win ANY draw. Therefore, if is POSSIBLE that I could win EVERY draw, a thousand in a row.
Dredge writes: Sometimes it is quoted as 10−5010−50...
What does that mean?
Dredge writes: ... although the cutoff is inherently arbitrary.
Yes, the cutoff depends on the context - and in your example, it does NOT apply.
Dredge writes: Although not truly impossible...
Bingo.
Dredge writes: ... the probability is low enough so as to not bear mention in a rational, reasonable argument.
Who are you to decide what is worth considering?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 612 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 2:48 AM | | Dredge has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 633 of 2932 (899957)
10-21-2022 12:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 615 by Dredge
10-21-2022 3:16 AM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: With all due respect, explaining how P (natural abiogenesis) < 0 is arrived at mathematically would be lost on you ... for the simple (no pun intended) reason that no atheist can understand the mathematics of God.
So you admit that it's only "the mathematics of God" that you're using and not real mathematics. And by real mathematics, I mean mathematics that we all (including you), use every day for useful purposes. Real mathematics keeps track of how much money you have and how much you owe. Real mathematics got us to the moon (and back, which is nice). The computer that you're looking at right now uses real mathematics. Real mathematics has served us pretty well.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 615 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 3:16 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 639 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 1:42 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 634 of 2932 (899958)
10-21-2022 12:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 619 by Kleinman
10-21-2022 8:05 AM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes: Is Dredge now supposed to explain to you the multiplication rule for computing the joint probability of random events?
He's supposed to explain his claim that probability can be less than zero and greater than one. Do you agree with him or not?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 619 by Kleinman, posted 10-21-2022 8:05 AM | | Kleinman has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 636 of 2932 (899960)
10-21-2022 12:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 621 by Kleinman
10-21-2022 8:18 AM
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Kleinman writes: Not everyone on this forum has knowledge of introductory probability theory let alone experts on the subject.
Dredge has claimed that probability can be less than zero and greater than one. Do you agree with him or not? Your answer will go a long way toward demonstrating that YOU have knowledge of introductory probability theory.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 621 by Kleinman, posted 10-21-2022 8:18 AM | | Kleinman has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 679 of 2932 (900036)
10-22-2022 12:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 637 by Dredge
10-21-2022 1:35 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: It means 10-50 ... 10^-50 ... 1/10⁵⁰
Now you can show us how it was calculated.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 637 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 1:35 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 680 of 2932 (900037)
10-22-2022 12:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 639 by Dredge
10-21-2022 1:42 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: ringo writes: So you admit that it's only "the mathematics of God" that you're using and not real mathematics.
Correct.
Yes, I know it is.
Dredge writes: You have no hope of understanding the mathematics of God coz you're an atheist.
So the "mathematics of God" is totally unscientific. So whenever you mention the "mathematics of God" we can disregard it.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 639 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 1:42 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 686 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:12 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 681 of 2932 (900038)
10-22-2022 12:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 651 by Dredge
10-21-2022 11:15 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: You seem to have ignored the part that says, "Although not truly impossible the probability is low enough so as to not bear mention in a rational, reasonable argument."
But you're not making a rational, reasonable argument. My odds are the same in every draw. Kleinman's notions about "multiplying probabilities" DO NOT apply in this context. The probability is the same in every draw.
Dredge writes: In other words, since the probabilty of the same person winning the lottery 1000 times in a row is much much less than 10^-50 (cf. 2.414×10^-8000)
It isn't. It's the same in every draw.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 651 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 11:15 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 697 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:42 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 682 of 2932 (900039)
10-22-2022 12:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 661 by Dredge
10-22-2022 5:00 AM
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Re: Not Just Math, Kleinman Doesn't Know Anything
Dredge writes: Thus, according to dwise1 logic, an actual Christian would believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead by using natural processes.
That's how the paramedics do it.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 661 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 5:00 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 683 of 2932 (900040)
10-22-2022 12:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 662 by Dredge
10-22-2022 6:12 AM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: Well of course you think the mathematics of God is "complete and utter bullshit ... utterly false ... completely useless" - you're an atheist.
Not just atheists. Everybody but you. Notice that even your hero Kleinman isn't acknowledging your "mathematics of God" fantasy. And Aztecs might believe in the mathematics of Quetzalcoatl.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 662 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 6:12 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 687 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:26 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 772 of 2932 (900165)
10-24-2022 12:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 686 by Dredge
10-22-2022 3:12 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: The supernatural is by definition, unscientific.
Then why do you keep talking about science? Your "mathematics of God" doesn't apply.
Dredge writes: The mathematics of God is as unscientific as abiogenesis.
Abiogenesis is entirely scientific. Even if it was impossible, it would still be scientific. We can only know something is impossible BECAUSE of scientific investigations.
Dredge writes: ... atheists cannot understand or even see the mathematics of God.
When students can't understand, it's the teacher's failure. Why has your God failed to teach his mathematics to anybody but you? (An idiot.)
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 686 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:12 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 773 of 2932 (900166)
10-24-2022 12:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 687 by Dredge
10-22-2022 3:26 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: he Aztecs perished because their civilisation was based on superstition and false gods, all orchestrated by demons. Along came the true God's missionaries and colonizers to put an end to that pagan abomination.
It also put an end to a lot of Aztecs. That doesn't really count, does it? "There are no heathens left! We killed them all!"
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 687 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:26 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 774 of 2932 (900168)
10-24-2022 1:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 695 by Kleinman
10-22-2022 10:27 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes: Does that mean that you aren't going to explain why DNA evolution...
Are YOU going to tell us whether or not you agree with Dredge's claim that probability can be less than zero and greater than one?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 695 by Kleinman, posted 10-22-2022 10:27 PM | | Kleinman has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 775 of 2932 (900169)
10-24-2022 1:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 697 by Dredge
10-22-2022 10:42 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: Are you saying the probability of someone winning the lottery once is the same as that same person winning the lottery 1000 times in a row?
Yes. Every time i buy a lottery ticket, my chances of winning are the same. Why do you not understand that?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 697 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:42 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 784 by Dredge, posted 10-24-2022 3:15 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 776 of 2932 (900170)
10-24-2022 1:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 700 by Kleinman
10-22-2022 11:01 PM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes: You wish I was peddling bullshit.
Poof! Your wish is granted.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 700 by Kleinman, posted 10-22-2022 11:01 PM | | Kleinman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 777 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-24-2022 1:07 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 778 of 2932 (900172)
10-24-2022 1:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 725 by Dredge
10-23-2022 11:13 AM
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Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes: It's no coincidence that most, if not all, career criminals are atheists.
Nor is it true.
'Dredge writes: How many serial killers do you think were God-fearing Christians?
Practically all of them. (Now I suppose you're going to pull the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.)
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 725 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2022 11:13 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
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