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Author | Topic: Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..." | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Who are you to determine how dumb somebody is? Who's dumber than you?
Abiogenesis: Knowing how stupendously complex any living organism is, how dumb would you have to be... Dredge writes:
Luck doesn't enter into it. Chemistry doesn't happen by chance. There are reasons why we have H2O and not H9O.
... to believe that lifeless mud, by a wild stoke of luck... Dredge writes:
Living organisms are made of chemicals.
..., somehow became a living organism? Dredge writes:
1. Show us your calculations. (You can't, can you, idiot?) The probability of that happening is to impossibly small...2. Small does not mean zero. If the probability is not zero, it CAN happen. 3. The probabilities that creationist idiots are touting - and that you are stupid enough to believe - are for a living organism to pop into being from a pile of random atoms. That's not how chemistry works. It happens stepwise. Two atoms combine to form a molecule, then two molecules combine to form a larger molecule and so on. It might take thousands of steps to make a complex molecule, adding one piece at a time. (Think of a jigsaw puzzle: you don't put a thousand pieces together in one step.) Dredge writes:
But you don't have an ounce of common sense.
no one with even an ounce of common sense... Dredge writes:
It's entirely scientific, whether you understand it or not. (As I've demonstrated above, you don't.)
... could believe such a profoundly unscientific idea. Dredge writes:
You should be embarassed. Even creationists are saying, "Please get off our side."
Embarrassing. Dredge writes:
Not as dumb as you, idiot. Universal Common Descent: How dumb would you have to be to believe that a human and a lettuce evolved from the same organism?"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
It is, but you keep doing it. Your contempt for biologists isn't even veiled.
Abusing science? That's silly. Kleinman writes:
Luckily, it fits everything else pretty well. Your idea of what is "irrational" has no effect on reality. And I know that my work is ignored by most biologists. It doesn't fit their mathematically irrational belief system."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Er... yes, you did. In Message 439 you said, "I prefer to believe that humans did not evolve but were created as per Genesis 2:7, about 10,000 years ago." ringo writes:
Er ... no, I didn't. And you just admitted to being a YEC. There is no significant difference between young earth and young humans. You are denying the science of dating."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Get out of the nineteenth century.
Is an atheist Darwinist...? Dredge writes:
I don't try to define reality but I can see it.
Is an atheist Darwinist qualified to define "reality"? Dredge writes:
Your doubts are as worthless as your beliefs. I have my doubts."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
Wait till you see my persistence.
Once again, I'm impressed with your attention to detail.quote:I'm still waiting for you to show how Dredge could have decades of symptoms in 3 years. "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
I've already answered that. If it was important, they would have done it.
Where's the biologists' explanation of the physics and mathematics of the Kishony, Lenski, and Desai experiments? Kleinman writes:
It doesn't matter how many replications it takes.
Where did you read in your fossils that it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments? Kleinman writes:
I'm three or four credits short of a degree in mathematics.
Take a math and physics class and then you might believe me. Kleinman writes:
The question is: Do they agree with your conclusions? The answer would appear to ne no.
My papers agree with the numbers given by Kishony and Lenski. Kleinman writes:
Was it a real peer review for a real journal? Or di the review consist of seeing whether your check cleared?
I'm not the only one that understands. The peer-reviewers of my papers also understand. Kleinman writes:
If nwr disagree with me, he isn't afraid to say so.
Ask nwr... Kleinhman writes:
How is that silly? If you make a claim, YOU back it up.
ringo writes:
You are just being silly now. YOU show us that they agree with your math. Kleinman writes:
It certainly isn't MY responsibility to find out whether or not they agree with you. You're the one who mentions them hundreds of times. Basic honesty would require you to find out what they actually think.
It isn't my choice whether they comment on my work or not. Kleinman writes:
You should be asking THEM why they haven't explained it to your satisfaction instead of trying to flog your nonsense here.
Neither Kishony nor Lenski have explained this. Kleinman writes:
When I want to "deal with" science, I go to the scientists, not some Internet crank.
Try dealing with the math and physics (if you can). Kleinman writes:
Biologists can and they did. Why do you think the nested hierarchy was established before anything was known about DNA? If it was just a bunch of wild guesses, why does DNA confirm it instead of refuting it?
But you can't tell whether birds are related to mammals or any other vertebrate by gross anatomy. Kleinman writes:
I know. That's where you fail. No biologist on earth understands but you do. Do you get your arrogance wholesale?
I'm criticizing biologists' failure ... Kleinman writes:
I doubt that many physicians share your opinion.
ringo writes:
Biologists' explanation of the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail sucks. I doubt that many physicians share your contempt for biologists. Kleinman writes:
I argue with the stupidest people and they bring up the stupidest things. I try to avoid arguing with people who are smarter than me.
ringo, you argue about the stupidist things. Kleinman writes:
Blah blah blah. The Lenski experiment has been going on for decades, the Kishony experiment published in 2016, the Desai paper was just published at the beginning of 2021. Have you even tried to read the Desai paper? What I asked was, "So is it Kishony best, Lenski second-best and Desai third-best? Then give us your fourth-best and fifth-best." Answer that.
Kleinman writes:
Sure it does. But unlike you, I don't call the experimenters incompetent.
I forgot to mention that your idea of science also doesn't include experimentation. Kleinman writes:
You're trying to make biology the equivalent of phrenology by claiming that biologists don't know what they're doing.
I'm not the one taking something equivalent to phrenology and thinking that I can explain the physics and mathematics of biology. Kleinman writes:
A fool would. ringo writes:
We'll take that as an admission that you can't. Fool. And the "we" here is not you. I got three cheers for that post, so "we" seem to agree with ME.
Kleinman writes:
They haven't explained it to your satisfaction because your satisfaction doesn't matter.
Biologists haven't explained the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments. Kleinman writes:
I'll tell them to go with biology, not creationist quackery. ringo writes:
Tell that to the people with antimicrobial-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments. Even if you could destroy evolution, creationism isn't even NEAR to second place."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Go ahead and whistle in the dark. Shaking in my boots, that's hilarious! Then start a topic about abiogenesis, like I suggested. Let's see what Kishony, Lenski and Desai have to say about that."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
Kishony, Lenski and Desai. (And if that's too subtle for you, Kishony, Lenski and Desai.)
ringo is just filling space at this time. Kleinman writes:
I agree, but he seems to be bored with your nonsense. If there is going to be any chance of an interesting discussion on this topic, it might come from Tanypteryx. (And he's one of my biggest fans.)
Kleinman writes:
I mostly debate people who are delusional. ... you might find this video interesting on debating someone that is delusional."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Get out of the nineteenth century.
from the Darwinist Space Cadet Manual, 13th edition, 2022, p.1 quoting something he doesn't understand, Dredge writes:
Do you know what "synthesis" means? Hint: it doesn't mean "down the drain". In 2013 Denis Noble said, “all the central assumptions of the Modern Synthesis (often also called Neo-Darwinism) have been disproved. Moreover, they have been disproved in ways that raise the tantalizing prospect of a totally new synthesis” (Noble, 2013). And it certainly doesn't mean "replaced by creationism"."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
the idiot, Dredge writes:
Only to somebody who is totally ignorant of chemistry. Abiogenesis by natural means represents an obvious scientific impossibility. But the topic here is Kleinman's ignorance of biology. If you want to make stupid statements about abiogenesis, start a topic about abiogenesis."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
But you admit to being a fool. "Claiming to be wise, they became fools..." Which is it? Are you an idiot or a liar? Or both?"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Well, your wishful thinking won't get rid of me. You can run but you can't hide.
But if Tany quits this discussion, it will be for the same reason that Taq quit and that wasn't boredom. Phat writes:
Nice sports analogy. I may not be in the major leagues but youre playing tee-ball. And Tany must like the way the C- team plays if he is a fan of yours."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
While you're waiting, you could answer some of your unanswered posts. I count about ten different topics that you've missed answering. I'm just waiting for you to say something interesting."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
What I said was: "While you're waiting, you could answer some of your unanswered posts. I count about ten different topics that you've missed answering." Jame Tour does a much better job describing why abiogenesis is not possible. This topic is not about abiogenesis. Start an appropriate topic.
Kleinman writes:
If you're even worse than some goober who thinks abiogenesis is "impossible". I can see why you're avoiding the subject. Jame Tour does a much better job describing why abiogenesis is not possible."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
You know nothing about chemistry. Abiogenesis is practically inevitable.
When confronted by the scientific impossibility of abiogenesis.... Dredge writes:
It has nothing to do with atheism. It's about chemistry. ... atheists panick... And there's no "panic" about it. I will gladly give you a kindergarten-level lesson in chemistry - in an appropriate topic. Try to be wrong (and stupid) about one thing at a time."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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