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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 2173 of 2926 (902658)
11-26-2022 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2145 by Kleinman
11-25-2022 1:17 PM


Re: Kleinman still does not know asexual vs sexual
Klein writes:
So, show us how you do the mathematics of recombination in a population.
You're not ready for the mathematics until you understand the difference between asexual and sexual reproduction. (I presume you're not a gynecologist.)

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2145 by Kleinman, posted 11-25-2022 1:17 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2174 of 2926 (902659)
11-26-2022 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2164 by Kleinman
11-25-2022 6:48 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
Does he know that it takes energy to replicate?
Do you know that living things take in energy from their environment?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2164 by Kleinman, posted 11-25-2022 6:48 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2176 of 2926 (902670)
11-26-2022 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2175 by Kleinman
11-26-2022 11:47 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
I googled it. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of explanations.
That's why you post all zero of your links.
So you can't call me biased toward the links I post, I'm inviting you to pick your own. You certainly can't claim there are none, since Google finds so many.
(I can give you a kindergarten-level lesson in using Google if you want.)
Kleinman writes:
He should have read it himself, then he would know something about thermodynamics. You obviously didn't read it.
So once more you stoop to insulting people you don't know. If I have to choose between a tenured professor's knowledge of thermodynamics and YOUR knowledge of thermodynamics, I'll choose the professor.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
You have confused the thermodynamics of competition with the thermodynamics of descent with modification.
My question was not about thermodynamics. It's simple math: Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ? I'm going to keep asking until you answer.
Kleinman writes:
I'm sure you can make the physics and mathematics clear enough so even Tany can understand it.
I think Tanypteryx knows more about it than I do - and even I know more than you do.
And I think Tanypteryx understands that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C. Do you?
Kleinman writes:
What if your birds and reptiles don't use the English alphabet?
The question is whether or not YOU understand the mathematics. Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2175 by Kleinman, posted 11-26-2022 11:47 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2177 by Kleinman, posted 11-26-2022 12:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 2229 of 2926 (902759)
11-27-2022 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2177 by Kleinman
11-26-2022 12:39 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
They are your imaginary links, you post them.
Tell it to Google.
qs=Kleinman writes:
Too bad the professor doesn't understand the subject he teaches.
You would have no way of knowing that.
Kleinman writes:
You have confused the thermodynamics of competition with the thermodynamics of descent with modification.
You are the one who is confused. I haven't said anything about thermodynamics at all, except to answer your question about whether I have ever taken a thermodynamics class.
The topic is not about thermodynamics.
The problem at hand is for you to demonstrate that you have even the most rudimentary understanding of evolution. So far, it seems pretty clear that you don't.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
It remains to be seen if anything is simple enough for you to understand.

Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
That's from Message 2170.
It isn't, actually.
If you can't manage links in the forum, it's no wonder that you can't follow links in Google.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
And I think Tanypteryx understands that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C. Do you?
That's not saying much since Tany doesn't understand thermodynamics, and neither do you.
It isn't about thermodynamics. It's simple math and biology.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
I don't know what is worse, your silliness or your redundancy.
My silliness is entertaining. My redundancy is about the same as yours (Kishoni, Lenski, Desai, oh my!)
What's worse is your evasion. Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ? Unless you understand that, there's no point in you even mentioning anything about evolution.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2177 by Kleinman, posted 11-26-2022 12:39 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2237 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 1:55 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2238 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2230 of 2926 (902760)
11-27-2022 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2181 by Kleinman
11-26-2022 3:03 PM


Re: Kleinman continues to not engage productively
Kleinman writes:
How would they know to go B to C?
They're NOT going from B to C. That's the whole point. And if you don't understand that, you know nothing about evolution.
You and your cousin have a common ancestor, your grandfather. You are NOT your cousin's father.
Kleinman writes:
They might be going β to γ or ב‎ to ג‎.
Indeed they might. Mathematical symbols can represent whatever they are defined to represent. Or don't you understand that either?
Kleinman writes:
They might get all confused!
There is no room for confusion because they have no idea where evolution is taking them (their descendants) or even that evolution is taking them anywhere.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2181 by Kleinman, posted 11-26-2022 3:03 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2231 of 2926 (902761)
11-27-2022 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2189 by Kleinman
11-26-2022 7:56 PM


Re: Usable energy
Kleinman writes:
The laws of thermodynamics apply in open and closed systems.
The lawS, plural. The increase in energy when an organism eats accounts for the increase in entropy. You can't have one law without the other.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2189 by Kleinman, posted 11-26-2022 7:56 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2232 of 2926 (902762)
11-27-2022 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2207 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 11:01 AM


Re: Usable energy
Kleinman writes:
Tell us why the laws of thermodynamics don't apply in an open system.
They don't apply the way you want them to because they work in combination. A process proceeds if the net free energy is positive.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2207 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 11:01 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2234 of 2926 (902764)
11-27-2022 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2217 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 12:27 PM


Re: Usable energy
Kleinman writes:
I know this math is tough for you....
Says the guy who doesn't understand that A → B and A → C are not the same as B → C

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2217 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 12:27 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2235 of 2926 (902765)
11-27-2022 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2233 by dwise1
11-27-2022 1:40 PM


Re: Usable energy
dwise1 writes:
... I would estimate that about twenty (20) of those message contained actual content...
I wonder how many times he mentions Kishony, Lenski and Desai.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2233 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2022 1:40 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2241 of 2926 (902774)
11-27-2022 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2238 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:04 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
You're the one not posting your imaginary links.
I'm not posting a link to Google, either. You should be able to find it yourself.
Kleinman writes:
My redundancy is about real, measureable, and repeatable examples of biological evolution.
Your redundant Kishony, Lenski, Desai, oh my! is about people who don't agree with you. Nobody but you has questioned my A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C
Kleinman writes:
And you don't know anything about biological evolution.
I know that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C
Kleinman writes:
Now that you are an expert in the thermodynamics of evolution, could you explain to us the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail.
As I have said, you're not ready for that yet. It's way over your head. Demonstrate that you understand that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C and then we can go on to Page Two of the kindergarten evolution textbook.
Kleinman writes:
What should we Google?
You could start by googling "evolution for children".

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2238 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:04 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2243 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2244 of 2926 (902778)
11-27-2022 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2243 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:18 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
How do you find a paper written by a biologist that explains how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail?
I googled "how drug resistance evolves" (15,800,000 hits) and "why cancer treatments fail" (108,000,000 hits).

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2243 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:18 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2246 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2385 of 2926 (903115)
12-04-2022 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2246 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:40 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
All you have to do is post one....
All YOU have to do is read one. Anybody who is interested in the truth will read one or more of them and know that you are wrong.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2246 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:40 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2389 by Kleinman, posted 12-05-2022 11:22 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2386 of 2926 (903116)
12-04-2022 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2266 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 5:13 PM


Re: Usable energy
Kleinman writes:
Have you ever thought about responding with the correct explanation of how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail?
Have you ever thought about responding with the correct explanation of how A → B and A → C are different from B → C?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2266 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 5:13 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2387 of 2926 (903117)
12-04-2022 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2284 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 7:53 PM


Re: A Simple Question
Kleinman writes:
why don't you file a complaint with the medical or engineering board?
We can have them contact you at "Department of Medicine, USA".
Kleinman writes:
We can redo the Scopes monkey trial where you are the monkey.
Do you really think a monkey was on trial?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2284 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 7:53 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2390 of 2926 (903159)
12-05-2022 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2389 by Kleinman
12-05-2022 11:22 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
ringo reads papers that don't exist.
Google thinks they exist
Kleinman writes:
That's why he won't post them.
I don't need to post them any more than I need to post links to demonstrate that France exists. They're there for anybody to see.
Kleinman writes:
If ringo could read, he would post the following papers that explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Your "explanations" have been done to death in this topic. Nobody is impressed by your "explanations".
Kleinman writes:
See how easy it is ringo and you are so wrongo. Ask your horse, he has more sense than you have.
You don't know my horse. Aren't you embarassed blathering about things you know nothing about?
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
Have you ever thought about responding with the correct explanation of how A → B and A → C are different from B → C?
Sure have cowpoke, read the above papers and find out how it works.
Nobody needs to read your papers to understand the simple math: A → B and A → C are different from B → C.
Kleinman writes:
Of course, your horse knows more math than you do.
You still don't know my horse.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
We can have them contact you at "Department of Medicine, USA".
You can file the complaint where ever you want.
Read more carefully. My statement was not about where to file the complaint. It was about where they can find you.
Kleinman writes:
Tell them I think you are psychotic because you believe that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals....
Even if I was wrong about that - and I have been trying to explain to you mathematically that your confusion about the math does not describe my belief - being wrong doesn't make me psychotic.
Kleinman writes:
... the only papers that explain this, I have written.
Yes, we know. Nobody on earth understands but you.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
Do you really think a monkey was on trial?
Auditions for the monkey part are still open.
You didn't answer the question: Do you really think the Scopes Monkey Trial was about monkeys?
Kleinman writes:
You can tell them how reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals....
I don't need to tell anybody that because they already know it isn't true. They can understand the simple math: A → B and A → C are different from B → C. You seem to be the only one who doesn't.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2389 by Kleinman, posted 12-05-2022 11:22 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2391 by Kleinman, posted 12-05-2022 3:12 PM ringo has replied

  
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