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Author Topic:   The origin of everything
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 12 of 106 (893238)
04-02-2022 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
04-02-2022 2:04 AM


Re: A Few Questions
Phat writes:
Make your first message your best message, Sir.
He's already had his first message, Message 1.
It may well be his last. Gods tend to disappear. It's a hard persona to sustain.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 04-02-2022 2:04 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 04-02-2022 3:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 35 of 106 (893312)
04-04-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
04-02-2022 3:56 PM


Re: A Few Questions
Phat writes:
Its an easy persona to sustain if you are, in fact, God.
How would you know that?
Phat writes:
It is (a) difficult if not impossible persona to duplicate or counterfeit.
On the contrary, thousands of false gods have fooled millions of people.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 04-02-2022 3:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 04-04-2022 11:50 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 09-25-2022 3:24 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 37 of 106 (893314)
04-04-2022 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
04-02-2022 4:01 PM


Re: Irony of the year
Phat writes:
The real irony around here will be when the group of secular humanist intellectuals are confronted with events that cannot be explained.
The secular humanist intellectuals have a far better record of explanations than the religionists.
I'll point out again that you're saying, "There are some events that cannot be explained - so here's the explanation."
You can't have it both ways. If something "cannot be explained", then your god story can't explain it either.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 04-02-2022 4:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 38 of 106 (893315)
04-04-2022 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by The Real God
04-03-2022 4:35 AM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
The Real God writes:
You need to think more of the poetry of the universe.
There once was a God named Jehovah,
Made a universe like a Bulova.
It ran six thousand years
but it ended in tears
'Cause the whole damn thing went supernova.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by The Real God, posted 04-03-2022 4:35 AM The Real God has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 63 of 106 (898525)
09-25-2022 3:42 PM


Now drag candle2 here.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 9:41 AM ringo has replied
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 10:05 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 67 of 106 (898627)
09-27-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
09-27-2022 9:41 AM


Re: Preconceived Notions
Phat writes:
Why can't people choose to interpret scripture?
If you're "interpreting" it the way you and candle2 do - i.e. making it up out of thin air - why even pretend to be using it as your source?
Phat writes:
If you use the approach that no Pastors are needed, any yahoo can take what is said and not listen to God at all....
Yes. Do that, please. (The voices in your head are not God.)
When I was young, the churches we went to used to complain that the Catholics didn't want their congregants to read the Bible but rather to let the clergy "interpret" it for them. Maybe you should be a Catholic.
Phat writes:
Candle may be burning at both ends, but he wants to reconcile his scientific curiosity with what his Pastor is telling him.
Candle2 has no scientific curiosity. He has contempt for science, or he wouldn't be trying to twist Genesis to fit science.
Phat writes:
I can feel his pain.
But not enough to do anything about it.
Phat writes:
You know I will forever disagree with the premise that "The God" of Genesis lied and that pesky serpent told us the truth. That's the first in my list of gripes.
You can gripe until the cows come home. Your griping won't change the reality of what the Bible says.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 9:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 2:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 68 of 106 (898629)
09-27-2022 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
09-27-2022 10:05 AM


Re: Sez Who?
Phat writes:
You already have both God (He lied) and Paul the Apostle on your WRONG list. I'm waiting to see how many people make the list before our conversations are over.
Are you under the impression that there are perfect humans walking around? EVEYBODY is wrong about something sometime. So yes, my WRONG list is the phone book.
Phat writes:
I question these modern scholars. They spend far too much time on their smartphone.
Did you read your own quote at all?
quote:
... modern scholars, especially from the 19th century onward...
No smartphones in the 19th century.
YOU are the one who spends far too much time on YouTube looking for easy answers.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 10:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by candle2, posted 09-27-2022 1:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 80 of 106 (898682)
09-27-2022 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by candle2
09-27-2022 1:47 PM


Re: Sez Who?
candle2 writes:
You cannot disprove by science, nor by any other means,
that my understanding of creation week did not happen
in the way that I described.
Science doesn't try to "disprove" anything, least of all somebody's beliefs. Science tests - and your beliefs about Genesis have failed every test that can be tested.
candle2 writes:
I wonder if you have enough faith in evolution to tell us
how earth was created. How life came from non-life.
It has nothing to do with faith. But there are people here who can explain those things to you.
candle2 writes:
I was limited to the Bible for my explanation. You,
however, are free to rely on anything and anyone that
you see fit.
You are limited by a made-up version of the Bible story. And I am limited by reality; I don't have the luxury of wishful thinking.
candle2 writes:
You like to attack the beliefs of others. I want to see you
defend yours, assuming that you have the courage to
even post them.
Why do you assume that I have beliefs that need defending?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by candle2, posted 09-27-2022 1:47 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by candle2, posted 09-28-2022 12:20 PM ringo has replied
 Message 89 by candle2, posted 09-29-2022 4:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 81 of 106 (898684)
09-27-2022 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
09-27-2022 2:52 PM


Re: Preconceived Notions
Phat writes:
If you are reading a story, you as an adult first label it fictional or non-fictional.
Not necessarily.
I have mentioned before that I have a book that purports to be the actual biography of the actual James Bond. I re-read it recently. I still don't know if it is fiction or non-fiction.
Phat writes:
You don't listen to some bozo who writes books and frequents Internet Infidels such as Shermer, Carrier, or Harris.
That's right. I don't know who any of them are.
Phat writes:
... my jury is still out and will remain out until I call them back into the courtroom.
Your jury will stay out until they promise to deliver the verdict you want to hear. Yours is a kangaroo court.
Phat writes:
What if it is you who are wrong and Jesus shows up at your door someday asking for spare change?
I'll give Him a toonie and ask him not to be too hard on you.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 2:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 87 of 106 (898725)
09-28-2022 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by candle2
09-28-2022 12:20 PM


Re: Sez Who?
candle2 writes:
Ringo, you are still not giving any answers to
questions.
If I have missed any questions, feel free to ask again.
candle2 writes:
You must be a politican. They can talk
all day without saying anything.
As I have said before, I could do a thousand posts standing on my head. What you get out of them is up to you.
The problem we usually have with creationists and religionists around here is that they run away before we're finished with them. Stay as long as you like and ask whtever you like. My bet is that you won't last long.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by candle2, posted 09-28-2022 12:20 PM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 88 of 106 (898726)
09-28-2022 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
09-28-2022 1:10 PM


Re: Sez Who?
Phat writes:
I know what ringo would say.

He would say "so can preachers".
Wrong again. I didn't say that.
Phat writes:
Why can't I know that I know that it's God?
Because you're not omniscient.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-28-2022 1:10 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 90 of 106 (898788)
09-29-2022 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by candle2
09-29-2022 4:04 PM


Re: Sez Who?
candle2 writes:
Ringo, it is indeed possible to prove/disprove by a
scientific method.
Do we have to go through this nonsense again like we did with Dredge?
NO. Science does NOT deal in proof. Science deals in evidence. Evidence can always be over-ruled by new evidence.
candle2 writes:
We have crystal clear proof the Earth's moon rotates.
We have EVIDENCE that the moon rotates. If you want to discuss science around here, you had better learn the terminology.
candle2 writes:
Every science experiment conducted in biology proves
that life comes from previously existing life of its own
kind.
Nobody questions that.
The question is where the FIRST life came from. Did it come from chemical reactions, which we know a lot about? Or did it come from some spook that we know nothing about using magical methods that we know nothing about?
Science goes from what we DO know to try to learn more. Magical designers have no place in science because we know nothing about them. We have no place to start from.
candle2 writes:
And, you are right in that you are totally unable to express
your own paradigm of life.
I don't know what you mean by "my own paradigm of life". If you tell me what the hell you're talking about, I'll discuss it till you beg me to stop.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by candle2, posted 09-29-2022 4:04 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by dwise1, posted 09-29-2022 11:24 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 92 by candle2, posted 09-30-2022 9:50 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 95 of 106 (898802)
09-30-2022 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by candle2
09-30-2022 9:50 AM


Re: Sez Who?
candle2 writes:
Ringo, we know that the moon rotates. It is a proven
fact.
Science does not deal in proof. Learn that.
candle2 writes:
There isn't simply evidence that the moon rotates, there
is proof that the moon rotates.
Science does not deal in proof. Learn that.
candle2 writes:
At least there is proof to
those of us use who employ operational/empirical
scientific techniques.
If you talk about proof, you are NOT employing operational/empirical
scientific techniques.
Science does not deal in proof. Learn that.
If you continue blathering about proof, I am going to correct you every time. Try to be wrong about something else for a change.
candle2 writes:
What I mean by your paradigm is that you are totally lost
concerning how life began, and about how millions of
unique organisms came to be.
Not at all. I know that life came from non-life by chemical reactions and that millions of unique organisms came to be by evolution. Chemistry happens. It can not be stopped. Evolution happens. It can not be stopped.
YOU, on the other hand are totally lost concerning HOW your god created anything.
candle2 writes:
You should stop trying to convince others that they are
wrong when you are unable to even know what you,
yourself, believes.
It isn't about belief. I don't need to believe anything about how life came to be. I have something better than belief: knowledge.
Granted, I don't have a lot of knowledge about biology. I haven't taken a biology class since high school. But I know enough kindergarten-level evolution to try to explain it to you - if you're willing to learn anything. I do know a thing or two about chemistry (at least the university thought so), so feel free to ask questions about that.
I'm not trying to "convince" anybody, least of all you, of anything. I'm just pointing out the truth, as I understand it. (You may notice that it isn't the smart people who are disagreeing with me; it's only you.)
candle2 writes:
You remind me of someone who has never had kids
trying to tell those of us with kids how to raise them.
So, according to you, I know nothing about science and I'm trying to teach you, who knows all about science.
We'll see.
candle2 writes:
There is nothing to suggest that complex chemicals
created life.
Sure there is. We know a lot about chemicals. We know a lot about how complex chemicals come from simple chemicals. (I took a whole semester on organic synthesis - and that was just an introduction to what is known.)
We know that simple chemicals can spontaneously form amino acids. We know that chemicals can form membranes. We know a lot about the chemistry that goes on inside a cell, using nutrients to produce energy and cell components. We're not that far away from being able to synthesize a living cell in the lab.
candle2 writes:
In fact, no one (outside of God) can say
how all the complex chemicals were created.
So you admit that you know NOTHING about how it happened.
candle2 writes:
Magical chemicals.
Figuratively, yes, chemicals are magical. But we can understand the magic. It's predictable.
Go ahead and ask questions.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by candle2, posted 09-30-2022 9:50 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by candle2, posted 10-01-2022 10:21 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 469 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 100 of 106 (898854)
10-01-2022 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by candle2
10-01-2022 10:21 AM


Re: Sez Who?
candle2 writes:
Ringo, take some chemicals and create life.
We're working on it. Keep watching the news. I bet it'll happen before your Jesus comes back.
candle2 writes:
Never has it been shown that chemicals can create life.
It has been understood for a long time that chemicals CAN create life. Life is MADE of chemicals. Given the right conditions, chemicals can not be prevented from doing what they do. Even a miracle can not stop chemistry.
candle2 writes:
Yet, evolutionists cling to this ridiculous assertion.
it has nothing to do with evolution. Try to be wrong about one thing at a time.
candle2 writes:
And, yes men applying the scientific techniques have
proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the moon
rotates. It is a fact.
Nope. Still wrong. It is a fact that the moon rotates but science does not deal in "proof". Proof is for judges and mathematicians.
candle2 writes:
Centuries of observations have clearly shown that life
comes from previous life of the same kind.
But no observation has ever shown that chemicals can not do what they DO do.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by candle2, posted 10-01-2022 10:21 AM candle2 has not replied

  
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