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Author Topic:   The Light Time Problem
nwr
Member
Posts: 6039
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 181 of 257 (894239)
05-07-2022 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by candle2
05-07-2022 5:48 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
NRW, the God that I worship says that in the beginning
He created everything. It's recorded.
Nonsense.
Your book says that. But your book was written by humans. There were no recorders. There were no observers making notes. It is not history.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by candle2, posted 05-07-2022 5:48 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by jar, posted 05-07-2022 7:58 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied
 Message 187 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 8:48 AM nwr has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(2)
Message 182 of 257 (894242)
05-07-2022 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by nwr
05-07-2022 6:40 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
And what is written in Genesis 1 is contradicted by what is in Genesis 2&3.
The problem is that most Christians are totally ignorant of what is actually written and totally dishonest about what it's meaning happens to be.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by nwr, posted 05-07-2022 6:40 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 183 of 257 (894244)
05-07-2022 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by candle2
05-07-2022 5:48 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
So do you believe that if we find that something happens through natural processes instead of through supernatural actions then that disproves the supernatural? Why?
To be more specific, do you believe that science finding that things happened through natural processes disprove God? Why?
IOW, do you believe that your god is so weak that it could not use the natural processes that you would elsewhere claim that it had itself created? Why?
Nothing that creationists say make any sense at all. And all creationists refuse to explain what they are saying.
Instead, all we keep getting from them is a steady stream of lies.
We have repeatedly asked you to explain what you are saying and you have steadfastly refused to do so. Instead, all you keep getting from you is a steady stream of lies.
Please stop lying to us. Please explain yourself and respond to our questions.
Start with what you think evolution is and how it works. We know quite well what evolution is and how it works, which is why we cannot even begin to identify the bogeyman that you keep attacking. Until you reveal to us what your hallucinations are, we cannot understand your irrational reactions to those hallucinations.
You have tried to challenge us with "show me the evidence for evolution", but have rejected all of our responses. The problem is that all we can show any evidence of is actual evolution, whereas you want us to present evidence of your fake "evolution" caricature which we don't know anything about because you refuse to tell us what the hell you're talking about! You could never recognize evidence for actual evolution because you expect to only see the equivalent of evidence that Tinker Bell can indeed produce enough pixie dust to enable all the aircraft in the world to fly.
If you disagree with that Tinker Bell analogy of what you're asking for, then do please tells us exactly what you would accept as evidence for evolution. Which of course would also require you to finally reveal your big secret: what you think evolution is and how it works.
 
At the same time, we have asked you to present positive evidence for creation. That is something that all creationists refuse to do, especially professional creationists.
We are still waiting. I have repeatedly heard creationists proclaim that they have "mountains of evidence" for creation and yet they never ever present it. I have told the story of a creationist co-worker, Charles, who attended a major creationist debate (H. Morris & Gish versus Awbrey & Thwaites -- the creators of "creation science" versus the creators of the only real two-model class then in existence (see Message 2058)) with me in 1985. On the way out, he was visibly deeply shaken, nearly in shock. He kept muttering: "But we have mountains of evidence. Why didn't they show any of it? But we have mountains of evidence. Why didn't they show any of it?"
 
Since you will never ever present any positive evidence for creation --because 1) there is none and 2) that would expose your half-century-old deception -- then at the very least present a creationist claim that you honestly and truthfully (using those terms very loosely since we're dealing with a creationist here) consider to be both valid and true. In nearly half a century of studying "creation science" I have yet to encounter even one truthful creationist claim, but that does not mean it cannot happen. So surprise me. Present one.
I guess your silly "polystrate fossils" claim was such an attempt, based as it is on almost zero evidence being presented by the creationists (oh, yes, they do exist, but creationists keep secret any geological examination of them which must exist) and on the standard creationist lies about geology. Not even a decent attempt. More on that in another reply.
This kind of reasoning doesn't instill much confidence
in the reader.
Funny you should use the "c-word". I trust that you know what a "confidence man" is: a practitioner of confidence tricks:
quote:
A confidence trick is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their trust. Confidence tricks exploit victims using their credulity, naïveté, compassion, vanity, confidence, irresponsibility, and greed. Researchers have defined confidence tricks as "a distinctive species of fraudulent conduct [...] intending to further voluntary exchanges that are not mutually beneficial", as they "benefit con operators ('con men') at the expense of their victims (the 'marks')".
Face it, you're nothing but yet another mark being conned by "creation science".
It's kid stuff.
No, science isn't "kid stuff", but rather your fairy tales are.
In order to understand science, you need to be able to learn. Until you have learned that the earth is spherical (somewhat) instead of flat and how and why we know that, you will continue to scoff at "books written by an evolutionist" (whatever that is supposed to mean; yet another creationist dog-whistle lie that no creationist will ever discuss) which tell you that the earth is "round" while you maintain it's flat because that field is flat.
How silly!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by candle2, posted 05-07-2022 5:48 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 184 of 257 (894245)
05-08-2022 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by candle2
05-07-2022 5:48 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
quote: candle2
Whenever I open a book written by an evolutionist it
You've never opened a book by an evolutionary biologist have you?
If you have, you've certainly never read it because you don't know what biology says evolution is.
If you're going to argue about evolution, the very least you need to do is find out what it is. If you don't, you'll just look pretty bloody stupid and never change anybody's mind.
And, btw, you make your beliefs look dumb too and revolting too because you seem to be lying all the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by candle2, posted 05-07-2022 5:48 PM candle2 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 185 of 257 (894246)
05-08-2022 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by candle2
05-06-2022 11:16 AM


The big difference is that I put more trust
in observational science (true science) than
historical science.

OS, for me, stands head and shoulder above HS,
which is open to subjective interpretation.

I could go on and on about how OS proves time
after time that evolutionary concepts are wrong.
...

Polystrata consists of fossils, mostly trees, but
also animals, that extend upright through multiple
geologic layers. Supposedly with each layer being
millions of years old.
No, you don't practice observational science. Nor does any creationist I've encountered -- indeed, what I've witnessed is that when a creationist does start practicing observational science then he does not remain a creationist for very long. Reality packs a powerful bite, whereas creationism only has unconvincing barking.
Despite the term being yet another BS creationist dog-whistle buzzword, observational science would most definitely involve going out and actually looking at the evidence, AKA "observing". Scientists do that all the time, whereas creationist never do! Thus, creationism is the opposite of "observational science."
For example there's the standard creationist BS lie about the formation of geologic layers (refer to Steve Austin's lie about that in Message 173). You know, that lie that you repeated and which is at the end of that qs box.
Now, a geologist would have gone to the site or at least read the survey report of the geologist who had gone to that site to collect and record the data. There, they would have observed the evidence, which would have included the properties of the layers of rock. There's a lot that a geologist can tell by that examination. For example, there's the rate of depositation for each of those layers (described by Austin's own source but completely ignored by Austin). One characteristic of a rapid deposit (one that even you should be able to understand) is the mixing of rocks of various sizes with the dirt, indicative of rapidly moving water -- in contrast, slow depositation would result in fine-grained particles, much like the varves in the bottom of a lake or shallow sea (slow moving water cannot keep large rocks in suspension).
Austin's misquoted source described those signs of rapid depositation around the Lancaster trees in question. Each layer deposited within a very short period of time (like within a day or so), not "for millions of years".
A scientist would go look at the evidence, observe the evidence, and report on the evidence. In sharp contrast, a creationist never looks at the evidence, but rather just makes up stupid shit and lies to everybody.
Present actual references to actual geological studies of polystrate fossils so that we can see what the actual characteristics of the strata are. Then and only then would we be able to discuss your claim with you.
Of course, we also understand that you will never be able to provide any of those references to us. We know that because your own creationist almost never provide those references, not even to you. Instead, all they ever do is to feed you lies which you swallow up eagerly so that you can vomit them out here.
 
Why is it that you post nothing but lies here?
Don't you know even one creationist claim that isn't a lie?
If you do know at least one that isn't a lie, then why don't you post it? Instead of this long string of silly lies that you keep throwing at us.
 
People accept evolution, even when clearly disproved
by real science, because they refuse to accept the
alternative.
A few problems with that:
  1. "People accept evolution, " Uh, yes, but ... you keep using that word but I don't think that it means what you think it means. In fact, you definitely do not use it to mean what it actually does.
    When we use that word, we refer to what evolution actually is. But when you use it, you refer to some completely and utterly bizarre whack-a-doodle bullshit nonsense pack of lies. Nobody has been able to figure out what the fuck you're talking about because you refuse to tell us! As if you do know better but you are intent on deliberately deceiving us. Typical creationist!
    Bottom line: you're not even talking about evolution, so the rest is nothing but your usual bullshit lies.
  2. ... even when clearly disproved by real science, ...
    Actually, real evolution is completely supported by real science. And real science clearly disproves creationism's fake "evolution" along with every creationist claim I've ever seen presented in the past 40 years.
  3. ... because they refuse to accept the
    alternative.
    The "alternative" is "creation science" and your false theology that depends on creationism's bullshit lies for its very existence.
    Damned right we reject that wretchedly sorry excuse of an "alternative"! We normals know better than to feed on your steady diet of bullshit.
Their mindset is "I want it this way-not that.
The most flagrant case of projection I've ever seen. The world is the way that it is, the way that it was created (as per an actual creationist, not one of you fake ones), and the world the way it actually is is what science studies. So a scientists primary motivation is to learn as much as possible about how the world really is.
But creationists cannot abide the world as it actually is. Their theology misleads them into believing things about the world which are contrary to fact. And even worse, their theology misleads them into believing that if the world is really as it actually is, then that somehow disproves God. Therefore, creationists must deny reality and insist ... wait for it ... wait for it ... "I want it this way-not that.
So it is the creationist mindset that you are describing, not that of us normals. Pure projection!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by candle2, posted 05-06-2022 11:16 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 186 of 257 (894247)
05-08-2022 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by candle2
05-07-2022 6:00 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
candle2 writes:
Perhaps, it isn't fair, and I don't mean it that way.
But, you need to u/s that because someone hasn't
replied doesn't mean that they have dismissed
your side of the argument.
When you almost always ignore what people say, and you do it consistently over a couple months, then you really are ignoring what people say. You're not just busy.
However, I do read the replies.
Do you, though? You make points, ignore the responses, then make the same points again. This is your modus operandi. If you're reading anything it has no apparent effect on you. By ignoring people's points you force them to make the same points again and again, and you usually ignore them each time they're made and remade.
I am still involved with a good deal of stuff, and I
can't just ignore everything else.
This discussion board is part of "everything else," and you're ignoring that part of "everything else." This isn't the one part of your life that you get to treat like shit so that you don't ignore the rest of it.
But I don't believe you're ignoring people here because you're busy. I think you're failing to address the issues people are raising because you have no answers. Sometimes you do answer an issue, but it's quickly rebutted, and you're only response seems to be to repeat the original rebutted answer again. Which is what people find so frustrating, since it is obvious you're not listening to anything they say. Note that the complaint isn't that you don't agree, but that you never engage with the arguments and evidence, whether you agree or not.
People have issued some pretty serious criticisms of both you and your views. You apparently choose to spend your time typing long messages that ignore these criticisms.
Perhaps, I am wrong to post at all since I can't seem
to find the time required to address everyone.
Don't kid yourself. It isn't necessary to address everyone. That's not the complaint. The complaint is that you're failing to address almost anyone and almost anything they say. When you reply to only 8 out of 51 messages you have a serious problem. Where's your answer to dwise1's polystrate fossil posts (Message 171, Message 172 and Message 173)? Where's the answer to ringo's challenge to your claim that your views possess scientific qualities (Message 170)? Where's your answer to the posts challenging your views on one kind of animal producing another kind (many posts, but for example Message 151).
You post fairly long messages. You obviously have time to spend here. Spend it responding to people's evidence and arguments instead of whatever it is you think you're doing.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by candle2, posted 05-07-2022 6:00 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 9:45 AM Percy has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 136
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 187 of 257 (894248)
05-08-2022 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by nwr
05-07-2022 6:40 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
NWR, all books are written by humans, even the ones
that only make idiotic assumptions and guesses
about the source of life.
At least the authors of the Holy Bible received their
knowledge straight from the Creator.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by nwr, posted 05-07-2022 6:40 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by jar, posted 05-08-2022 8:52 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 190 by Percy, posted 05-08-2022 9:49 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 192 by nwr, posted 05-08-2022 10:25 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 194 by dwise1, posted 05-08-2022 1:00 PM candle2 has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 188 of 257 (894249)
05-08-2022 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by candle2
05-08-2022 8:48 AM


You're missing ALL of the points.
candle, stop making Christians look like total ignorant assholes.
You obviously have never honestly read even the first three books of the Bible and you continue to repeat utterly stupid assertions that do not stand up to the actual evidence, specifically what is actually written in the Bible.
You are as ignorant and dishonest about the Bible and Christianity as you are about reality and evolution.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 8:48 AM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 136
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 189 of 257 (894250)
05-08-2022 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Percy
05-08-2022 8:22 AM


Re: You're missing the real message
Percy, I don't ignore what people say. However, there is
no need to reply to assumptions. I deal only in facts.
Never in recorded history has one kind of animal evolved
into another kind of animal--whether it was by punctuated
equilibrium, or slowly over eons.
I know that some kinds, because of isolation or mutations
lose the ability to procreate with others of the same kind,
but they are still of the same kind. They have never been
observed to become anything else.
True evolution would for example be a cat evolving into a
dog. You don't have this.
I give observable examples of how polystrata fossils
come to be. And, evolutionists reject the crystal clear
evidence in favors of how it might have happened.
The eruption at MSH led to the formation of numerous
levels of strata, over forty feet high, in just a matter of
days.
Years ago one could by these cubes at Walmart that
contained water and sand of different size and color.
one could shake the cube and mix up the sand. When
the sand was allowed to settle it always sorted the
sand by weight and size, just like the water in a global
flood did. Observable science.
A global flood is the best explanation of how great heaps
of fossils were deposited.
I am the only person here posting my side of the issue.
And, I do have some time to post here. However, it is
limited.
I will have the cataract removed from my other eye
tomorrow. It will take several days to heal. But, I will
address your statements after that. I will read all your
posts and reply to them. Trust me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Percy, posted 05-08-2022 8:22 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Percy, posted 05-08-2022 10:21 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 193 by dwise1, posted 05-08-2022 12:24 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 196 by dwise1, posted 05-09-2022 3:45 PM candle2 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 190 of 257 (894251)
05-08-2022 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by candle2
05-08-2022 8:48 AM


Re: You're missing the real message
candle2 writes:
At least the authors of the Holy Bible received their
knowledge straight from the Creator.
Since you're such a big fan of observational science, perhaps you can describe the observations made by the holy authors, the ones that told them it was God they were talking to.
By the way, all non-theoretical science is observational. If you don't observe then you can't see the evidence from the experiment (e.g., what happened when you mixed two different solutions in a test tube) or from the gathered evidence (the fossils collected at a dig, which you'll later study in detail thereby making even more observations) or the gathered data (pulling a magnetometer behind a boat to measure sea floor magnetization).
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 8:48 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 191 of 257 (894252)
05-08-2022 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by candle2
05-08-2022 9:45 AM


Re: You're missing the real message
candle2 writes:
Percy, I don't ignore what people say.
Ignoring what people say is exactly what you do. Claiming you don't do it doesn't suddenly change the reality. If you're not ignoring people then please explain why, for example, you're still claiming that one kind of animal can produce another?
However, there is no need to reply to assumptions.
There's a need to reply to everything where you want people to know your thinking. How is anyone to know you see something as an assumption unless you tell them? Silence doesn't communicate anything. How do you know you're right that it's an assumption unless you discuss it with the person?
I deal only in facts.
The evidence says you stay as far away as you can from facts.
Never in recorded history has one kind of animal evolved
into another kind of animal--whether it was by punctuated
equilibrium, or slowly over eons.
Plants can evolve, too, but anyway, you've been repeating this while ignoring the examples of speciation provided to you, and also ignoring information about how long speciation takes for any but species with short generation times, like bacteria.
I know that some kinds, because of isolation or mutations
lose the ability to procreate with others of the same kind,
but they are still of the same kind. They have never been
observed to become anything else.
You've been asked repeatedly to define "kind" and have ignored all such requests.
True evolution would for example be a cat evolving into a
dog. You don't have this.
This is an example of information you've ignored. You've already been told more than once it would take many human lifetimes for a species as complex as a cat to evolve into a new species (it wouldn't evolve into a dog - that's absurd).
I give observable examples of how polystrata fossils
come to be. And, evolutionists reject the crystal clear
evidence in favors of how it might have happened.
And you were rebutted multiple times and ignored the rebuttals. Use the quoting feature, quote what someone said about polystrate fossils that you think is wrong, then describe what is wrong about it. All you're doing is repeating your incorrect arguments over and over again.
The eruption at MSH led to the formation of numerous
levels of strata, over forty feet high, in just a matter of
days.
Yes, volcanoes tend to deposit a great deal of lava and ash in a short period of time. This has been known about volcanos for thousands of years and comes as no surprise. Mount St. Helens is not unusual in this respect.
Years ago one could by these cubes at Walmart that
contained water and sand of different size and color.
one could shake the cube and mix up the sand. When
the sand was allowed to settle it always sorted the
sand by weight and size, just like the water in a global
flood did. Observable science.
The strata in the geological column is the exact opposite of sorting by weight and size. Layers of shale, slate, limestone and sandstone of varying density and grain size alternate throughout the geological column.
A global flood is the best explanation of how great heaps
of fossils were deposited.
Why do you think a global flood would deposit fossils in "heaps"?
Only in some places are fossils in "heaps", in most places they are not.
​I am the only person here posting my side of the issue.
And, I do have some time to post here. However, it is
limited.
Take your time. No one's rushing you. The complaint isn't about the time you're taking. It's about how little attention you pay to what people say.
But, I will address your statements after that. I will read all your
posts and reply to them. Trust me.
You've had a couple months to prove to everyone that you're not worthy of trust. No one's going to trust you now just because you ask them to. If you want anyone's trust you'll have to earn it by keeping things you commit to.
And don't hand me this pity thing about cataracts. Half the people I know have had cataracts removed. It's no big deal. I hope you chose both your doctor and your focal point wisely.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 9:45 AM candle2 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6039
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 192 of 257 (894253)
05-08-2022 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by candle2
05-08-2022 8:48 AM


Re: You're missing the real message
At least the authors of the Holy Bible received their
knowledge straight from the Creator.
Then they must have horribly garbled what they wrote.
Night and day before there was a sun?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 8:48 AM candle2 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 193 of 257 (894258)
05-08-2022 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by candle2
05-08-2022 9:45 AM


Re: You're missing the real message
Percy, I don't ignore what people say.
Yes, you do. And you have admitted doing it! Like my explanation to you how evolution actually works (HINT: it's not your abysmally stupid "cat evolving into a dog" lie) which you told me that you did not even read because [voice=whining_little_baby]"my phone is too small".[/voice]
I deal only in facts.
No, you don't. Rather, the exact opposite.
You ignore all facts. Instead you deal only in lies.
And since your god can only be served through lies, that means that your god is "The Lord of Lies", AKA Satan.
You've been outed, dude! Go slithering back to your coven. And stop your fucking lying!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 9:45 AM candle2 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 194 of 257 (894259)
05-08-2022 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by candle2
05-08-2022 8:48 AM


Re: You're missing the real message
Now to cast yet more pearls before swine.
NWR, all books are written by humans, even the ones
that only make idiotic assumptions and guesses
about the source of life.

At least the authors of the Holy Bible received their
knowledge straight from the Creator.
Ludicrous nonsense born of abject ignorance and willful self-delusion.
Learn something about the history of the Bible and how it was written.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Learning is against your religion.
All books are written by Man. All books are the Word of Man, including the many Bibles.
Add to that the multitude of fallible human interpretations. On one level, every single translation is an interpretation. You are obviously a monoglot, so you would not understand that translation is not just substituting individual words, but rather you must determine what the source text says (AKA "interpret") in order to then express the same idea in the target language. Some translations are simple while many others are much trickier which can result in a lot being lost (or added) in translation. And it doesn't help when there exist multiple source texts that don't say the exact same thing (in my Koiné class we used Bruce Metzger's Greek New Testament which annotated variant text for so many verses -- Revelation promises that anyone who changes even one letter of that book will be most severely punished for it, yet even Revelation is filled with text variants).
But the multitude of fallible human interpretations causes even more problems. Is slavery good or evil? Both sides of that issue used the same Bible and even the exact same Bible verses to defend or condemn slavery depending on their position. IOW, they already had their position and "truth" at the start, so then all they did was to gather "evidences" to support their pre-determined position. Exactly as creationists do.
And that multitude of fallible human interpretations results in a multitude of fallible human created theologies, each one "basing itself" on "the same Bible" and arriving at entirely different conclusions.
Despite your lies about it, you do not believe in the Bible or even in "God" (which you have demonstrated amply is different from the actual Christian "God"). You believe in your theology.
And it is a false theology because it fails the Matthew 7:20 Test (KJV):
quote:
Matthew
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
You and your steady stream of lies are that evil fruit, hence your religion of a corrupt tree that should be cut down and thrown into the fire.
But of course that doesn't mean anything to you, because it's what the Bible says that Jesus said. And since when did what either the Bible or Jesus says mean anything to you?
The only thing that could be considered the true Word of God would be The Creation itself. You know, the very thing that you deny so vehemently as you use your graven idol (ie, your Man-made theology) to blot it from your view.
quote:
Man wrote the Bible.
God wrote the World.

Back in the day when AOL was in the web hosting business, a number of us created our first websites.
One such was created by George H. Birkett, a grandfather and devout Christian. His theme was that the Bible is the God's Second Testament, His First Testament being Nature. The purpose of the Second Testament is to prepare us for reading the First Testament.
 

From my links page:
quote:
Blending Faith with Reality by George H. Birkett
Honorable mention, since the link is broken (another victim of AOL leaving the web server business) and I have not found a new site by him, but I think I did find his obituary.
George Birkett is a devout Christian grandfather who is putting some of his thoughts about religion and his faith on his web site. He also accepts evolution as a scientific explanation and has concerns about creation science. Part of that concern is that creationists have chosen to worship the Bible instead of worshipping God.
From his "Ignorant adoration?" page (link broken):
quote:
However, I see too many signs of what I call "ignorant adoration." That’s when we blindly accept what others tell us what and how to believe. There is no reasoning to it. It’s what someone says the bible says or some kind of denominational tenet or doctrine or dogma that encourages denial of evidence (clues) and interferes with our applying our God given intellect to contemplate what the evidence tells us. I can cite dozens of examples that are obvious to me. If I did, though, I would be telling you what clues to read and how to interpret them and I would be doing for you, or to you, the very thing that I protest. I urge all of us, each of us, first to be aware, then to appreciate, then to dedicate our lives to reading the clues and learning what others have learned before us to help us apply our own intellect and reason towards a personal quest for truth within the framework of reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by candle2, posted 05-08-2022 8:48 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19784
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 195 of 257 (894260)
05-08-2022 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by candle2
05-07-2022 6:00 PM


Re: You're missing the real message
candle2 writes:
Perhaps, I am wrong to post at all since I can't seem
to find the time required to address everyone.
You have the time to post lies. And when people expose your lies, instead of responding you post more lies.
We don't need any more of your lies. Defend the lies you have already told.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by candle2, posted 05-07-2022 6:00 PM candle2 has not replied

  
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