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Author | Topic: The Light Time Problem | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Page one of the thermodynamics textbook:
Why do evolutionists ignore the best provedlaw of physics--law of increasing entropy. The second Law of Thermodynamics applies not only in physical and chemistry, but in biological and geological. They all lose order. Evolutionary systems are expected to increasein order and complexity. However, no exception to the 2nd Law has ever been found. thermo = heat
Thermodynamics is about the movement of heat.dynamics = movement You're confused in thinking that the arrangement of "stuff" is relevant. Thermodynamics is not about the organization of stuff. It's about the organization of heat. Thermodynamics does not say that stuff can not become more organized. Thermodynamics says that heat spreads out. A good example of the second law is a cup of hot coffee sitting on the table. Put your hand above it. You can feel the heat moving. Eventually, the heat will spread out to fill the whole room. If you had a sensitive enough thermometer, you could measure the rise in temperature of the room. Now look at a chemical reaction:
2 H2 + O2 --> 2 H2 Water is certainly more orderly than hydrogen or oxygen, so simple observation shows that your idea of thermodynamics is wrong. And guess what. That reaction produces large quantities of heat (hint: the Hindenburg). That means that the water is more stable than the hydrogen and oxygen. The Second Law means that a system will inevitably move toward a more stable configuration - even if it makes the stuff more orderly. Why don't creationists understand that? Why do they tell you nonsense about thermodynamics?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Did you not read my post at all? Hydrogen and oxygen move toward a more orderly system - water. Nothing moves towards the more orderly,regardless of whether it is in a so-called open or closed system. The second law is NOT about order of things. It's about order of energy. A more orderly system of things - e.g. water - certainly CAN come from a less orderly system. You can see that. Why do you deny it?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
As I tried to point out to candle, almost all chemical compounds defy his misunderstanding. They are, by definition, more complex than their constituents. By candle's misunderstanding, it would be impossible to make chemical compounds. Not to mention that it would be impossible to crystalize anything. And on and on.... ... life itself would also violate that same law and hence be impossible."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
It didn't "have" to take thousands of years to build Rome either - but it did. Tanyptery, my point is that it does not taketens or hundreds of millions of years to create either diamonds or oil. "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
Well, lies are taboo everywhere, except in your church, apparently. Evolution-denial is a lie, a bold-faced lie - as Mark Twain would call it, a damned lie. Climate-change-denial is also a lie and a damned lie - damn near a criminal lie. College should be a place where people canexchange ideas, but certain ideas are taboo. "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Everybody who uses their brain does accept it.
There is no way to prove evolution. If it were provable, everyone wouldaccept it. candle2 writes:
Dirt is common; it isn't very valuable. By all means yes, do disregard your so-called common sense and look at the evidence.
Evolutionists want people to disregardtheir common sense.... candle2 writes:
Liar. There are no transitional fossils. (You also lied in Message 66 about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and I corrected you in Message 74 and Message 79. I.\'m still waiting for you to acknowledge that you were wrong.)
candle2 writes:
They really do though. None of these fossils come with a tag onthem, stating how old they are. "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Wrong. And wrong.
Evolution is neither a logical nor a consistent theory. candle2 writes:
Wrong again. And wrong again. The theory (which is a a stretch of the imagination toeven call it a theory) is not based on empirical science. Do you know what a theory is? Please tell us what you think it is.
candle2 writes:
No. Let's not. Let's call you an ignorant liar instead.
For the sake of being honest, let's call it a hypothesis;albeit, a weak one. candle2 writes:
The standard response to that silly statement is that you might as well distinguish micro-walking from macro-walking. You might as well say that you can walk to the corner store but you can't walk to New York. That's nonsense, of course. Macro is just made up of a whole lot of micro added together.
There is only one type of evolution that has even a tinyhint of science behind it. And that is microevolution. candle2 writes:
What do you think "true evolution" is? You think it's something stupid like dogs turning into cats, don't you. That's what those stupid lying creationists have told you, isn't it?
Even microevolution isn't true evolution. It is nothingmore than changes in gene frequencies within a species. candle2 writes:
Every mutaion produces new information, just like every sentence that somebody types produces new information.
No new information is acquired. candle2 writes:
And they are different species because they have adapted to different situations.
All finches in the Galapagos are still finches. candle2 writes:
What did you expect them to be?
All thedifferent breeds of dogs are still just dogs. candle2 writes:
Liar.
One cansay that minute changes over eons of time can lead to the creation of new species/kind, but that belief is based on faith, not science. candle2 writes:
Who said evolution required an increase in information? A different species of finch has different information but not necessarily "more" information.
Isolation can lead to speciation, which might lead tosome animals of the same kind no longer being capable of reproducing, but this is a loss of information. candle2 writes:
Again, tell us what you think evolution is. You seem to be thoroughly ignorant on the subject - but tell us what you think it is.
It is not evolution in any form of theWord. candle2 writes:
Liar. Google "Has one species evolved into another species?"
Humans have not observed one species of animalevolving into another species of animal (organism). candle2 writes:
Liar. Google "What is a transitional fossil example?"
Humans have no transitional fossils, when we shouldhave tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions. candle2 writes:
They're working on it. Be prepared to lie about it when they succeed.
Some say that complex chemicals created life. And, Isay prove it. candle2 writes:
Neither is your lying.
Replicate the process. Guess work isn'tscience. candle2 writes:
There is nothing but lies on your side. Do you think lying for Jersus is a good thing?
The facts are all on my side. candle2 writes:
Creationism has nothing to do with science. The THEORY of Evolution wins by a landslide. It comes down to scienceand creation vs. evolutionary hypothesis. You didn't respond to anything I said in Message 133. And I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that you lied about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics in Message 66."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
Well, not "completely" justified. There are (at least) two things against you:
It is such a simple request, and I am completelyjustified in asking for it. 1. None of you guys has ever defined properly what a "kind" is. It's not a scientific concept. If you want scientific evidence, you have to define scientifically what you want. 2. As others have pointed out, your idea of "evolution" is complete and utter nonsense. candle2 writes:
But you're not a competent individual. You're thoroughly incompetent to discuss anything related to science. I want what any competentindividual (especially what a competent scientist should demand), and that is empirical and operational evidence. "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Your views on thermodynamics are not based on real science. I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that. Not only aremy views based on the Bible; they are also based on real science. candle2 writes:
No you don't. Have you ever observed water? The existence of water proves that your ideas about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics are false. If simple structures - e.g. H2 and O2 could not spontaneously become more complex - e.g. H2O, then water could not exist. Your view is 100% opposite from observational science. Your view is 100% wrong. The big difference is that I put more trustin observational science (true science) than historical science. But you won't acknowledge that obvious fact, will you? Because you prefer creationist lies to real science."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper |
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
You have the time to post lies. And when people expose your lies, instead of responding you post more lies. Perhaps, I am wrong to post at all since I can't seemto find the time required to address everyone. We don't need any more of your lies. Defend the lies you have already told."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
1. Science doesn't deal in proofs. It deals in evidence. I would also like for you tolist your absolute proofs. 2. Science doesn't deal in absolutes. candle2 writes:
False dichotomy. If you cannot provide proof,please state that it an assumption. "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
I think everybody understands that that is your belief. We also understand that God "saving" us from Himself is a ridiculous concept. First, God is not trying to save all humans during thispresent age. More than 99% of those who call themselves Christians don't understand this. But your religious rubbish has nothing to do with the topic. Stop adding more nonsense and discuss the nonsense that you've already posted."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
Proof "beyond a shadow of a doubt" is just a cute phrase that lawyers use. It has no basis in reality. Courts deal in reasonable doubt. Well, courts of law also deal in evidence, but theyare oftentimes wrong. Proof can prove or disprove something beyond a shadow of a doubt. And courts are wrong more often than science. Science is self-correcting.
candle2 writes:
Nothing can prove an idea "beyond a shadow of a doubt".
Evidence alone cannot do this. candle2 writes:
No. Evidence is opento Interpretation. And one's interpretation is almost always slanted by presuppositions. Science is a collective procedure. Scientists point out each other's presuppositions. A Christian scientist and a Muslim scientist can cancel out each other's presuppositions. You should get a clue how science works before you parrot the lies that creationists have told you. Now, please respond to Message 74."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
Yeah, you pretty much have to use your imagination because there doesn't appear to be any confirmation anywhere on the internet. Many of those who work on the excavation ofthese fossils claim that it still has the "stench of death." Imagine that. Just out of curiosity, how long do you think the "stench of death" lingers on bones?
candle2 writes:
No. That is not what they say at all: The flooding, they insist, drowned these thousandsof animals, and quickly covered them with mud; thereby, preserving the fossils. quoteSo the dinosaurs were killed by one flood, the flood receded and then the carcasses were eaten by scavengers and then the bones were buried by another flood. And you think they would still smell? candle2 writes:
That's a lie.
Tissue samples from the numerous sites showthat these animals died just a few thousand years ago, and not tens of millions. Scientists Find Soft Tissue in 75-Million-Year-Old Dinosaur Bones Ancient tissue found in 195 million-year-old dinosaur rib candle2 writes:
You quoted the phrase "monster storm" but you didn't cite any reference. Here's what I found: The site in Hilda is said to have been caused by a"monster storm," that was geographically isolated. quote candle2 writes:
"Common sense" would suggest that there is evidence for many "geographically isolated" floods - your own quote - but NO evidence for a global flood. The large site in America isn't treated with thesame degree of common sense, even though the best explanation is a "global flood." "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
How do you figure a sedimentary layer managed to sneak UNDER an older igneous layer? But the sedimentary rock could be much younger than the surrounding igneous rock. Edited by ringo, : Spellinge. "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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