The War in Europe

Exactly. As long as Trump violates the Constitution in ways they approve of they will happily go along with it. It has the added bonus that congressional Republicans can claim they never voted for tariffs.

quote:

---

Governor Newsom reportedly negotiating with foreign countries to bypass Trump tariffs.

​

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

---

Interesting article, it reads, . . . only congress can make non-emergency tariffs. Since the president's tariffs are not based on emergencies, they should not be implemented.Therefore, California as well as every other state, should legally disregard the tariffs.Let the prez bring the matter to the supreme court, if the supreme court wants to rule with the prez, let the supreme court own this economic disaster.I do not think we should obey any prez brain-fart prematurely. At the least, slow-roll EVERYthing through the courts.

He made good on his tariffs campaign promise with a vengeance. Where it goes from here is anybody's guess - and there are many worthy sages a-guessing - there are too many microeconomic, macroeconomic, and geopolitical variables at play. Not to mention the geopolitical machinations that are privy only to presidents, prime ministers and the like.

​

I'll take Trump at his word that he's doing this to make the USA stronger and better. I also believe that if he succeeds he will make the rest of the world stronger and better.

​

Regarding the handwringing over the economy and the stock market, things need to be put into perspective. Decades ago, Pat Buchanan, a guy with lots of controversial ideas and a few really good ones, pointed out:

​

"To me, the country comes before the economy; and the economy exists for the people. I believe in free markets, but I do not worship them. In the proper hierarchy of things, it is the market that must be harnessed to work for man – and not the other way around...."

​

More recently Senator Eric Schmitt put it this way:

​

“America is not an economic zone. It’s not a strip mall with an airport attached. It’s a nation. It’s a people. It’s our home.”

​

(quotes above courtesy of Philip Wegman in Real Clear Politics)

​

Back in 2022 the now-PM Georgia Meloni of Italy, in defining her movement, declared:

​

"We are the enemy to those who would like us to have no identity, to be the perfect consumer slaves."

​

The USA and the rest of the world need to re-orient their thinking to these principles.

This is the The War in Europe thread. Did you perhaps mean to post this to the The Second Trump Presidency thread?--Percy

He's panicking now, mum and dad have come home and are looking quite angrily.It's ok, this all has a good chance going very bad, very quickly - but only if we're lucky.

Good question, Percy, and this was my conundrum!The Second Trump Presidency was on a different topic, but The War in Europe seems to be discussing tariffs.Either way, I'll move it to 2nd Trump.Tx.

Hello Tangle - This discussion has been moved to The Second Trump Presidency, but why would we be lucky if it goes very bad, very quickly?Sincere question, I'm interested in your analysis.

It's like herding cats.--Percy

These were todays headlines on the BBC:

Russia and Ukraine will "immediately" start ceasefire negotiations, Donald Trump says after a two-hour call with Vladimir Putin

​

The Russian leader says he is prepared to discuss "compromises" on Ukraine after a "frank conversation" with his American counterpart

​

For Trump, who has grown visibly exasperated with President Putin in recent months, this is a high-stakes call, writes BBC's Bernd Debusmann Jr from the White House

​

Unless the US president comes up with new levers of pressure on Russia, Putin has little to worry about, BBC's Vitaliy Shevchenko writes

​

Ukrainian and Russian delegations failed to reach any deal during face-to-face talks in Istanbul on Friday

​

Critics say that Trump is on Putin's side.

​

(A similar worry was voiced in Israel as Trump talks to the new leader in Syria as well as the Saudis.)

​

The difference between Trump and Biden, among other things, is that Biden refused to talk with Russia and paid far too much respect to Hamas.

​

Time will tell if Trump succeeds at breaking stuff and then taking credit for fixing it later. I was encouraged by our minerals deal with Ukraine, and despite what many of you think, Putin has far too much power to be ignored and condemned.

​

Trump's political strategy seems to be a bit like a business deal rather than a political conversation.
( Also mentioned was involving the Vatican as a neutral meeting ground for the ceasefire negotiations.) In my opinion, staying out of a war with Iran will be a political victory for Trump, but a lot depends on the terms of a peace in Ukraine and what will be gained.

​

According to the BBC, Trump also talked with many European leaders today.

BBC writes:

​

Trump has spoken with Putin. The plan was also for him to speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and some Nato leaders.

​

In his latest post on Truth Social, which comes after his phone call with Putin, he lists who else he has spoken to today, these are:

​

Volodymyr Zelensky
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen
French President Emmanuel Macron
Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz
Finland's President Alexander Stubb

​

For some reason, I want Trump to succeed rather than fail in his unorthodox willy nilly approach to politics. He loves being in the headlines, but it can be argued that he is no longer making things worse for the world.

​

The report card needs to be full of good grades by the time of the mid-terms, or the same old crap that failed will be reintroduced as a resurgent Democratic party makes the Orange one a lame duck.

​

What do you guys think?

​

One more thing. I still think that the economic outlook for the world will still involve a reset of some sort. There is talk of remonetizing gold. There is talk of deals with the Saudis. I believe that Biden blew the opportunity for that with his commitment to clean energy. It was ten years too early.

---

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

​

Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

because trump's position is that russia doesn't have to give up the land it's taken and that ukraine won't be allowed to join NATO, which are two things that putin wants. The only thing that ukraine gets out of a peace deal is a ceasefire. trump has said that zelensky should have made a deal to avoid the war, which of course means surrender land to russia. If trump was around during the revolutionary war he'd be on his knees sucking king georges cock and saying that washington should just make a deal.

Ohhh good. How lucky we are to have a repeatedly failed individual with dementia using his six bankruptcy experiences in non-business affairs.

Germany has finally given the okay for Ukraine to strike deep into Russia, lifting restrictions that had already been lifted by other major Ukrainian allies. Should Ukraine eventually fall the free world has only itself to blame by allowing free rein for invader Russia while forcing much smaller Ukraine to fight while handcuffed: Germany becomes Ukraine's last major backer to allow use of long-range missiles against RussiaAnd in related news, is the Trump administration reversing itself on NATO? Who knows, but there is increased U.S. military activity in northern Europe, specifically Sweden's Gotland Island whose location is strategically important. There are reports from the U.S. Army of generally increasing military activity in northern Europe in cooperation with Nordic and Baltic forces. Here's a detailed report, but it's from the Wall Street Journal: The U.S. Reinforces Europe’s Northern Front, Fearing War With Russia. Here's a human interest style report from the Daily Mail: British paratroopers parachute onto Swedish island as part of NATO exercise preparing to defend Europe from Russia... and are asked to show their PASSPORTS | Daily Mail OnlineMeanwhile Russia has bombarded Ukraine with missile and drone attacks for three consecutive days now. Trump is often contradictory, but there have been occasional indications that he may be giving up on U.S. involvement in the war while blaming his failure to deliver on his promises to end the war on Russia and Ukraine. Trump doesn't seem to understand how bad an idea it is to reward aggression. That was one of the lessons of WWII. It's why we must reject Russia's seizure of Crimea and it's attempts to annex eastern Ukraine.Trump also doesn't understand the importance of a free and secure Europe to the United States. There may be an ocean between us, but given modern transportation, communication and military capabilities it is almost literally on our doorstep. Trump seems to think Russia is only a threat to Europe, that Russia is Europe's problem, and he can't seem to imagine how dramatic a shift it would be for American security were the ports of Rotterdam, London, Liverpool and Hamburg to become Russian and Russian missile silos and radar are placed on western European soil.--Percy

I am in the same city as Zelenskyy today. Where am I?--Percy

Worland WY
Bettendorf IA
Sedalia MO
?

Zelenskyy was in Vienna yesterday: Ukraine’s Zelenskyy wins non-military backing from Austria a day before visit to G7 gathering. Didn't seem to get much mention in the news beforehand.His announced plan was to visit Canada next where he hopes to meet with Trump today, who will be attending the G7 meeting.--Percy