The War in Europe

To answer your attempted diversion, I don’t agree. I think that Trump’s monkeying around with Ukraine and his willingness to believe Russian disinformation had more to do with the Russian invasion than anything Biden did. And Trump’s efforts for “peace” - when not compromised by his pro-Putin stance - seem to be about forcing Ukraine into a minerals deal. And they may be sabotaged anyway since the Russians seem to want only a pause to regroup and try again.But that is a side issue.Trump is taking a deliberate policy to encourage climate change. Why should he not be blamed for that?

Which country was invaded, Phat?Do you believe it's okay to invade the sovereign territory of other nations?Are you even aware of the legally-binding international agreements signed by Ukraine, Russia, the US, and the UK around the de-nuclearization of Ukraine after the fall of the USSR, and that those agreements obligated the US and UK to respond with support for Ukraine if Russia were to invade after Ukraine voluntarily gave up the nukes in their territory?Are you aware the Ukraine is the only country in history to have nuclear weapons and voluntarily relinquish them, and that their invasion by Russia puts Ukraine in the spotlight as an example of what will happen in terms of international support for any other nation that might choose to give up nuclear weapons?Should the United States (or any nation) feel obligated to meet the terms of its agreements?Trump doesnt want to "stop the war."Trump wants Ukraine to surrender its sovereignty to Russian invaders, after the United States made commitments to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine from exactly this.Is surrender an acceptable means to achieve "peace" in the face of an invasion? Would you take the same position if your country was invaded and at real risk of losing your sovereignty?Are you aware that Russia has (delayed) plans to invade other countries after they take over Ukraine?These are not rhetorical questions. I'd really like your answers.

He also wants Ukraine to donate half its mineral assets to the USA.Sure, no problem.

I think you're in the wrong thread. This thread is The War in Europe. What paid relationships? If you're thinking of the trade deficit with the EU, the cause is our strong economy. If you want to eliminate the trade deficit then you need only weaken our economy.If you're thinking of NATO, here's a table of every NATO country's contribution as a percentage of GDP: The goal is 2% of GDP, and only 9 of 31 countries currently aren't meeting that goal. Trump is now demanding 5%, but that's impossible, and if he's using it as a pretext for withdrawing from NATO then of course NATO countries will have to sharply increase spending, but it will be on their own terms, not on US terms as is currently the case. All that US military equipment currently used by NATO countries? The Bradley tanks, the Patriot missile systems, the F16 fighters? Forget about 'em. All those NATO countries taking our side in foreign negotiations and disputes? Forget about that, too. What in the world has that to do with the Ukraine war and NATO? Where is this coming from? While of course we share intelligence with NATO countries, no one here has mentioned this, except you just now. Our characterizations of Europe as an essential partner have been far broader than that. You're getting your topics mixed up again. You're off-topic again, but you're obviously getting your information from spurious sources on X or Facebook or YouTube. You know, you *can* look up valid information on your own.Directors of various departments at the Kennedy center average around $100k, and the President of the Kennedy center, Ric Grenell, recently appointed by Trump, probably earns the same as his predecessor, Deborah Rutter, whose salary was around a half mil, comparable to presidents at other major performing arts centers in the United States. All this information is readily available online - there was no need for you to display your ignorance for all to see, which you do time and time again. We all eagerly await your explanation for how anything at the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts is related to the Ukraine war or NATO. Have you been paying any attention to the news at all? All news sources have directly quoted Trump's comments about Russia and Ukraine. What is wrong with you? You're still off-topic, but what business deals are you referring to? How much say do you think countries should have over the spending of other countries? If we have a say over European countries' spending, shouldn't they have a say over ours? In other words, isn't what you're saying absurd and ridculous? Which means that of course it is the type of thing Trump might say, but you don't have to join him in his idiocy. China is totalitarian. It doesn't matter how their economy is doing because their leaders can't be voted out. They can spend as much as the like on foreign influence, adventures and interventions. So when an American soldier in the Middle East is seriously injured, he won't go to a hospital in Germany where we would no longer have bases but to one in Saudi Arabia? Which would have considerably more leverage over us once our bases in Europe are gone. And when something happens to a carrier like, oh, I don't know, a collision with a large merchant ship near the Suez Canal (US Navy aircraft carrier collides with merchant ship near Suez Canal), where does the carrier go? What jobs are you talking about. Again, this topic is about the Ukraine war. Still off-topic, but where are you getting this garbage? No one here, except apparently you, is advocating layoffs. I doubt anyone here, except apparently you, cares about the politics of career government workers. You are a master of understatement, but if you really believe that then why is your message just chock full of support for Trump? What evidence do you have that Musk's chaotic layoffs are saving us money? Musk is actually laying off IRS employees just as we're entering the meaty portion of tax season, making tax evasion easier, diminishing assistance, and causing refund delays and an increase in errors. The richest would stand to benefit the most from IRS layoffs. If the original Trump tax cuts are not extended then the taxes of average people, including you, will go up. The rich do not have to worry about their Trump tax cuts because theirs were permanent.Before you post yet another insipid message I implore once again for the umpteenth time to first please get your information straight. Quality information is out there, just not anyplace you ever look.--Percy

How did you manage to construct a sentence that repeats Trump talking points on the Ukraine war while not mentioning Putin? Logic like yours would have Great Britain responsible for WWI, WWII, and the Civil War.How can you strongly criticize Trump ("a train wreck"), making it seem like you understand how much chaos and destruction he's causing, while endorsing everything he says and does?--Percy

he wants to stop it by rolling over and surrendering to putin. He's a coward.

A coward he is but he's not surrendering to Putin. Trump is doing as Putin planned and ordered of him. Trump has been a Putin asset, an operative of Russian political chess on the world stage, for years even before his first run for president.Trump did as he was told. The Russian state is back in control of the White House.

'Joke' doing the rounds here:Trump: We are going to get Ukraine to Mine minerals, it will be beautifulMusk: What if they flood the market?Trump: I will impose tariffs so they will mine less.Musk: Mine FewerTrump: Don't call me that, not just yet anyway.

What an utterly disgraceful scene, Made me feel quite sick. Can we really have four more years of these revolting criminals. What now for Ukraine?Where are the Democrats?

As Will Rogers said, "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."--Percy

Shit, where are the Republicans?Support for Ukraine isnt about being morally correct for the Powers That Be. This is one of the rare instances where "pursuing the national interests of the United States" also purely coincidentally happens to be the morally correct option.The United States has a massive interest in degrading Russia's warfighting capability. before the Ukraine invasion, Russia was a peer on the international stage - a near-superpower, on the level of the US, the EU, and China.The invasion of Ukraine has gone so utterly terribly for Russia that they are, at least for the moment, no longer a near-peer. We now know far more of their actual capabilities, and they've lost some very expensive and difficult to replace hardware, as well as a mountain of bodies. The war has struck at Putin's ability to maintain leadership of the country. Russia has been politically isolated and its adversaries emboldened and organized.This is objectively good for the United States. For the low low cost of weapons we were going to replace anyway, with money that just goes into our own economy, we got to both do the morally right thing and help a country fend off an invasion, while simultaneously doing the "big real-live game of Civilization" thing and knocking an adversary almost off the game board.Donald Trump is an imbecile and everyone in the world not in his specific cult knows it.Republicans like Mitch McConnell have always been 110% on-board with playing that international Civ game and degrading the capabilities of adversaries like Russia. Not to mention all of the US economic activity that comes from demand for more US-made weapons.The GOP should be clamoring for impeachment over this alone.Ukraine is going to have to depend on Europe for a time. Once again, Trump has outright betrayed alliances, broken binding agreements (we have a treaty with Ukraine that obligates us to provide support), isolated the United States, made us weaker, strengthened our adversaries, and acted like a big baby narcissist with an IQ below freezing, in Celcius.I have so much respect for Zelensky at this point. That man is a leader, and I wish we had a President with even a fraction of his integrity and stoic dedication to his people.

That was a pre-planned, organised mugging.Vance deliberately provoked and Trump joined in because he couldn't help himself, just as Vance knew he would. Vance is the biggest evil in the room and that's quite a high bar with the orange idiot in their too.They're all fucking gangsters.

I doubt that Trump planned what happened. He just thought that Zelensky would cave and give him the deal he wanted. Trump had no intention of ever giving Ukraine any security guarantees worth anything - why else leave them out of the deal?If Trump had understood deal-making he’d have known that the security guarantees were an essential part of the package - and essential for a real peace. Trump doesn’t care about peace, Trump only cares about money.

More than that as pointed out by Rachel Maddow: Among the press covering that meeting was a camera crew from Tass, the Russian news agency. For that scene of Trump and Vance verbally beating up on Zelenski to be shown in Russia and, I would assume, to be broadcast into Ukraine. So Trump was helping Putin (with whom he admitted to have spoken two days ago which was a surprise to everybody else, as per Maddow's reporting).I'm sure that Trump did that in order to do Putin "a favor, though".

Uggh. I wasn’t surprised that Trump refused to give security guarantees. He was already arguing against that. I also know that the Russians have been arguing against any meaningful security guarantees for Ukraine.So it looks very much like Trump was attempting to sell out Ukraine with the Russians on hand to see that it was done. A genuine peace was never on the table.