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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1066 of 1127 (918113)
04-22-2024 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1065 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 5:53 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
You buy too much propaganda.
It is rather hilarious that you follow that sentence with a bunch of propaganda.
Ukraine openly removed democratically elected parliamentary members, when parties were banned.
They banned the pro-Russian parties. Not exactly shocking given how hard the Ukrainians fought to get rid of the previous Russian puppet government that was effectively a kleptocracy. Is it so terrible that a country wants to protect its sovereignty by removing influence from other countries, not to mention the systemic corruption?
By the way, there were 349 registered and legal political parties in Ukraine as of 2020.
Democracy has been over in Ukraine for a decade.
Any evidence of this whatsoever?
Mayors, who were Ukrainian citizens, were killed.
Yes, by invading Russian soldiers.
Ukraine outlaws individuals - infact militias execute their fellow Ukrainian citizens.
That's on the list of known Russian misinformation.
quote:
In his announcement of the invasion, Putin baselessly claimed that Ukraine was carrying out genocide in the mainly Russian-speaking Donbas region.[68] He said the purpose of Russia's "military operation" was to "protect the people" of the Russian-controlled breakaway republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Putin claimed they had been facing "genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime" for eight years.[68] There is no evidence for Putin's claims of genocide, and they have been widely rejected as an excuse to justify invasion.[68][69][70][4][71][72]
Disinformation in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia
You are spreading known Russian propaganda.
Russia wanted to give Ukraine a deal, you say Ukraine did not want a deal, and because of the disagreements over the eastern parts of Ukraine? ( Your position is that Ukraine - itself, not due to western government's pressure - rejected the 2022 deal, due to the refusal to compromise on Eastern Ukraine's questionable status?)
Deal? A foreign country invades and takes part of your country, and you make a "deal" for them to keep it?
Do you work at a Russian propaganda farm?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1065 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 5:53 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1067 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 6:59 PM Taq has replied
 Message 1068 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:01 PM Taq has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1067 of 1127 (918116)
04-22-2024 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1066 by Taq
04-22-2024 6:49 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
You know nothing about killed Ukrainians.
I filled an entire load of 100 loose-leaf papers, with Ukraine's dead. I need to find it.
All from mainstream sources.
The last truly democratically elected leader of Ukraine got run out of the country 10 years ago.
He did not cheat to win, when he won. Everybody got to vote.
He was actually as moderate as they come. As pragmatic as they come
He says Russia is NOT to blame for this mess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 6:49 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1071 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 7:20 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 1072 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 7:21 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1068 of 1127 (918117)
04-22-2024 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1066 by Taq
04-22-2024 6:49 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Are you saying no mainstream sources will report on Ukraine killing Mayors?
It's own citizens.
Do you deny such?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 6:49 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1069 of 1127 (918120)
04-22-2024 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1062 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 5:22 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)

Ukraine openly bragged about executing Mayors of Eastern Ukraine towns, in 2022, saying they were fifth columnists.
Source?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1062 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 5:22 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1070 of 1127 (918122)
04-22-2024 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1065 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 5:53 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1065 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 5:53 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1071 of 1127 (918123)
04-22-2024 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1067 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 6:59 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
The last truly democratically elected leader of Ukraine got run out of the country 10 years ago.

He did not cheat to win, when he won. Everybody got to vote.
Who? Yanukovych? Are you kidding me?
Do you mean the Russian puppet who escaped to Russia after all of his corruption was uncovered?
And cheating on elections?
quote:
The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe confirmed witness accounts of voters being blocked from access to polls and being attacked along with local election officials who tried to frustrate the Berkut's practice of falsifying voters' ballots in favor of Yanukovych's Party of Regions candidates. Individual cases have been reported of citizens grouping together and fighting back against the Berkut in order to preserve election integrity and results.[182] Upon coming to power Yanukovych had reversed oversight measures established during the Yushchenko administration to restrain the Berkut's abuse of citizens whereupon the special force "upped its brutality."[183]
Viktor Yanukovych - Wikipedia
Yanukovych used violence against voters and election officials to gain power.
He was actually as moderate as they come. As pragmatic as they come
Do you work for the Russian government?
Added in edit:
quote:
Yanukovych and his associates, known as ‘the Family’, are believed to have embezzled as much as $37 billion and stashed it in bank accounts and company shares around the world, including in EU countries such as Austria, Latvia, Cyprus, Italy, and the Netherlands.
Viktor Yanukovych: corruption, opulence and decadence in Ukraine - Transparency International EU

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1067 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 6:59 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1072 of 1127 (918125)
04-22-2024 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1067 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 6:59 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Who? Source?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1067 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 6:59 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:27 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 1074 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:28 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1073 of 1127 (918129)
04-22-2024 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1072 by Theodoric
04-22-2024 7:21 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Ready, retard?
I said, "Are you ready"?
You better respond when I post it.
I was going to wait.
Here is one:
Volodymyr Struck.
Taq already said "kleptocracy" is an excuse for outlawing parties and politicians.
(Read what he said closely)
He then said supporting "Russian propaganda" is a reason for bans.
THE ISSUE IS NOT RUSSIA
THE ISSUE US UKRAINE HAS A PROBLEM WITH ETHNIC RUSSIANS
RUSSIA does not want the eastern provinces to be part of Russia. The ethnic Russians want freedom and probably autonomy. After the bloodshed, they possibly want an independent nation

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 7:21 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1075 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 7:37 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 1076 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 7:38 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 1080 by DrJones*, posted 04-22-2024 8:02 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1074 of 1127 (918130)
04-22-2024 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1072 by Theodoric
04-22-2024 7:21 PM


I just gave the name of an executed mayor : Volodymyr Struk
Ukraine killed one of its own.
And the list is longer
Much longer...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 7:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1075 of 1127 (918132)
04-22-2024 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 7:27 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
I was actually asking who the last democratically elected leader was, but my fault for not being clear of what rambling I was responding to.
As for Struk you might want to actually spell his name correctly. As all you have done is provide a name, I will not bother responding on the issue. Remember, what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:27 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1076 of 1127 (918133)
04-22-2024 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 7:27 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
Taq already said "kleptocracy" is an excuse for outlawing parties and politicians.
(Read what he said closely)
quote:
When former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych fled the country following the 2014 Maidan revolution, Ukrainian citizens who stormed his Mezhyhirya mansion discovered a palace of cartoonish opulence with guilded bathrooms, a private zoo, and a floating restaurant in the shape of a pirate ship. A good illustration of this extravagance is the $11 million he allegedly paid for a chandelier and his seven tablecloths worth a staggering $13,000.
This private opulence was all paid for with public money. Embezzlement in the Yanukovych era is said to have taken the form of theft, corruption in public procurement, rigged energy prices, and misuse of carbon-emissions allowances.
Yanukovych and his associates, known as ‘the Family’, are believed to have embezzled as much as $37 billion and stashed it in bank accounts and company shares around the world, including in EU countries such as Austria, Latvia, Cyprus, Italy, and the Netherlands.
Viktor Yanukovych: corruption, opulence and decadence in Ukraine - Transparency International EU
I would call embezzlement of 37 billion to be an issue.
He then said supporting "Russian propaganda" is a reason for bans.
Acting on behalf of Russia is a good reason for bans.
RUSSIA does not want the eastern provinces to be part of Russia. The ethnic Russians want freedom and probably autonomy. After the bloodshed, they possibly want an independent nation
That's an internal Ukrainian issue. It's their country. It is not a justification for invasion.
Yes, there is tension between the parts of Ukraine, but that is for Ukraine to deal with. They are a sovereign country. And yes, Russia does want that land, and all of Ukraine. They want all of the territory that was once controlled by the former USSR. They will spread disinformation and propaganda to meet those goals, and you swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:27 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1077 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:45 PM Taq has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1077 of 1127 (918135)
04-22-2024 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1076 by Taq
04-22-2024 7:38 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
The same thing about corruption is said about every leader - even Zelinski.
Your selective examples of possibilities of election interference, are quite pathetic.
I thought you could do better than that.
Nobody questions his 2010 win, btw
(I plan a longer response to you later)
(On all of your posts)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1076 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 7:38 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 7:52 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1078 of 1127 (918137)
04-22-2024 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1077 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 7:45 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
The same thing about corruption is said about every leader - even Zelinski.
So you don't deny massive corruption on the part of Yanukovych?
Instead, you try to cover it up by making baseless allegations about others?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1077 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:45 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1079 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:57 PM Taq has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1079 of 1127 (918138)
04-22-2024 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by Taq
04-22-2024 7:52 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
The corruption is almost off topic.
This is boring, typical stuff.
The election issues do not concern his win.
It concerns various local events, and he is accused of not doing enough to stop it.
He is/was a pragmatist and HINT HINT:
Any claims that he was trying to inflame a delicate society is probably propaganda.
Just common sense...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 7:52 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1082 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 8:07 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 1084 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 8:08 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2292
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 1080 of 1127 (918140)
04-22-2024 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 7:27 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
RUSSIA does not want the eastern provinces to be part of Russia
then they should fuck off out of them and let Ethnic russians there deal with Ukraine themselves.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 7:27 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1081 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 8:06 PM DrJones* has replied

  
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