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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 721 of 995 (893978)
04-27-2022 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 720 by jar
04-27-2022 9:40 AM


Re: Going Postal
It would take balls of molten lava but there may be a Step Into Madness scenario. Tell Putin we will strike him one for one on the nuclear scale. Let him know if he pops a nuke ANWHERE that we will pop one IN Russia of equal yield / similar target. Let him know that if he wishes to escalate in yield or target type then we will follow suit. It’s madness, of course, but the first flash, and its retaliation, may clarify his untenable position for him.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by jar, posted 04-27-2022 9:40 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 729 by Omnivorous, posted 04-28-2022 8:02 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 722 of 995 (893979)
04-27-2022 1:39 PM


Well this is fun. They're getting worried aren't they?
Russia has threatened to strike British targets in Nato territory because it is supplying weapons to Ukraine and supporting its raids against Putin's army.
Moscow's defence ministry said any backing from London for Ukrainian attacks on Russian soil would invite a "proportional response".
Maria Zakharova, who speaks for the Russian foreign ministry, asked if "we understand" Moscow can attack Nato countries who support Kyiv on their own territory.
The threats follows a series of apparent Ukrainian sabotage operations against targets throughout Russia, seeking to hamper the calamitous - but extremely bloody - attack on their country.
Ms Zakharova, one of the most outspoken and prominent voices during the invasion, said: "Do we understand correctly that for the sake of disrupting the logistics of military supplies, Russia can strike military targets on the territory of those Nato countries that supply arms to the Kyiv regime?
"After all, this directly leads to deaths and bloodshed on Ukrainian territory. As far as I understand, Britain is one of those countries."
Russia threatens to strike against Britain over its support for Ukraine - LBC

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 723 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2022 4:04 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 726 by Percy, posted 04-27-2022 5:06 PM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 723 of 995 (893986)
04-27-2022 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Tangle
04-27-2022 1:39 PM


Details like Britain being NATO were glossed over. What good did this bluster do for Russia? Is Boris apt to acquiesce? Is anyone in NATO? This is the Baghdad Bob level of international stupidity.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Tangle, posted 04-27-2022 1:39 PM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 724 of 995 (893987)
04-27-2022 4:45 PM


What Happened on Day 63 of the War in Ukraine - The New York Times
Russia’s state-run gas company, Gazprom, announced that it was suspending shipments of natural gas to Poland and Bulgaria, a move that the European Union’s top official denounced as “blackmail.”
Serious? Blackmail?
The sense of awareness on both sides is disturbing.
Russia thinks arming their adversaries is not fair. It's cheating.
EU thinks Russia cutting off gas supplies is not fair. It's blackmail.
Are these people in the same world as us? Do these folks not realize that these are the kinds of things that happen when THERE'S A FUCKING WAR ON!
Excuse me, of course I meant to refer to the special military operation.
Cheating? Blackmail? In a war? Really?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by ringo, posted 04-27-2022 4:53 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 725 of 995 (893988)
04-27-2022 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by AZPaul3
04-27-2022 4:45 PM


AZPaul3 writes:
In a war? Really?
Our own media don't seem to have much of a clue what war is about either. They're constantly surprised that civilians are being killed. (And some of those civilians are women and children!)
And our Prime Minister, Trudeau Jr., calls it an "illegal war", as if Putin didn't get the proper permits.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2022 4:45 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 726 of 995 (893989)
04-27-2022 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Tangle
04-27-2022 1:39 PM


It's almost as if Russia doesn't understand what war is. "What? If we invade they can attack us back? But, but, that's not fair."
In related news, the attacks on Bryansk, oil depots about 70 miles deep into Russia, and other targets could have been carried out by Tochkas, ancient Soviet era surface-to-surface ballistic missiles with 250-pound warheads that have been upgraded over the years. Ukraine is thought to have 90 launchers and 500 missiles.
Concerning other recent Russian noise, it's no surprise that since we stopped self-enforcement of the "keep Russia mollified because, you know, nukes" rule that Russia is reminding us of it.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Tangle, posted 04-27-2022 1:39 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 727 of 995 (894006)
04-28-2022 4:28 PM


Prophet Hitchens [ From March 8th, 2005 at the University of Western Ontario. --Admin ]
Edited by Admin, : Add date/place.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 728 of 995 (894007)
04-28-2022 5:26 PM


Two bits of news
"Two Russian strikes have hit Kyiv, officials say, as UN chief Antonio Guterres is in the city for talks with President Volodymyr Zelensky"
Russia apparently doesn't feel the need to make friends and influence the UN.
And, more hopefully
"President Biden is asking Congress to approve a record $33bn aid package for Ukraine, including more arms"
The gas issue is a problem though, it could split the EU

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 729 of 995 (894012)
04-28-2022 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 721 by AZPaul3
04-27-2022 10:00 AM


Re: Going Postal
AZPaul3 writes:
It’s madness, of course, but the first flash, and its retaliation, may clarify his untenable position for him.
That MADness has prevented a nuclear exchange for decades.
Having spent my grade school years tucked under my desk with my head between my legs, I definitely don't relish the new depth to the nuclear shadow.
But Putin will rattle his missiles with every act of aggression. It really is as simple as the schoolyard bully: resist, and it may go hard for you; submit, and it will for sure go hard for you.
It's generally best practice to punch the bully in the nose right off the bat. It provides clarity.
Having watched the spectacular failure of Russian tanks in Ukraine, with their "Jack-in-the-box" design flaw (shells and missiles carried in the turret), making any direct hit a devastating blow, I wonder how much confidence Putin can have in his launch capabilities. Some Russian American friends tell me no one in Russia expects anything to work, largely due to corruption and cronyism.
I suspect the moment Putin decided to go nuclear would be the most hazardous of his career. Straight up madness even gave Kevin McCarthy a moment of sanity.
One general. One shot.
But I don't think he'll go there. Faced with sustained painful, expensive resistance, he will declare victory for domestic consumption and try to keep whatever he has occupied, ready to try again later.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2022 10:00 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by AZPaul3, posted 04-28-2022 8:39 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 732 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-28-2022 9:09 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 730 of 995 (894014)
04-28-2022 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by Omnivorous
04-28-2022 8:02 PM


Re: Going Postal
One general. One shot.
That's why the table is so long.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by Omnivorous, posted 04-28-2022 8:02 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 731 by Omnivorous, posted 04-28-2022 9:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 731 of 995 (894015)
04-28-2022 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 730 by AZPaul3
04-28-2022 8:39 PM


Re: Going Postal
quote:
That's why the table is so long.
Too funny and probably true -- but he has to sit with his back to something.
In 1979 I worked for the ROK government. The country was ruled with an iron hand by the authoritarian Park Chung Hee and had been for years.
One morning I walked through the gate and froze before armored personnel carriers with manned gun emplacements, because the director of the Korean CIA shot President Park in the head the night before in a drunken quarrel.
Like Bugs sez, one never knows, do one?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 730 by AZPaul3, posted 04-28-2022 8:39 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by AZPaul3, posted 04-28-2022 10:24 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 732 of 995 (894016)
04-28-2022 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by Omnivorous
04-28-2022 8:02 PM


Re: Going Postal
It's generally best practice to punch the bully in the nose right off the bat. It provides clarity.
I may be reading things incorrectly, but I always thought Putin sees the U.S. as the bully, of course, tyrants hardly ever are rational or even close to normal.
I suspect the moment Putin decided to go nuclear would be the most hazardous of his career. Straight up madness even gave Kevin McCarthy a moment of sanity.
I have lost any confidence I may have once had that we have enough uncorrupted decision makers will make any good choices regarding this renewed armed standoff with Russia. Someone remind me how we can tell we won the Cold War?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by Omnivorous, posted 04-28-2022 8:02 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 733 by Omnivorous, posted 04-28-2022 9:36 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 734 by Theodoric, posted 04-28-2022 9:44 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 733 of 995 (894017)
04-28-2022 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 732 by Tanypteryx
04-28-2022 9:09 PM


Re: Going Postal
Tanypteryx writes:
Someone remind me how we can tell we won the Cold War?
The USSR collapsed. The world didn't go BOOM despite near-constant regional proxy wars -- that was about the best we could hope for...
There's corruption in all human endeavors. But our weapon systems work. We spotted the keen vulnerability of Russian armor decades ago, and designed our counters accordingly. The Russian designs remained static.
Putin thinks the west is the putz who's gonna give up the lunch money. He thought his WWII-vintage conventional forces were the new irresistible blitzkrieg.
He's being re-educated.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-28-2022 9:09 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 734 of 995 (894018)
04-28-2022 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 732 by Tanypteryx
04-28-2022 9:09 PM


Re: Going Postal
Personally, I think Vlad will use nukes in Ukraine. Even with that knowledge what are we to do? Let him take more and more countries? Let him and his horde rape and pillage across the globe?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-28-2022 9:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by Omnivorous, posted 04-28-2022 9:57 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 737 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-28-2022 10:36 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 735 of 995 (894019)
04-28-2022 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 734 by Theodoric
04-28-2022 9:44 PM


Re: Going Postal
Theodoric writes:
Personally, I think Vlad will use nukes in Ukraine.
I don't think Putin is mad, just evil.
He dreams of a return to Soviet-era glories. If his current borders were threatened, he'd go nukes, but that would spell defeat for his dream. Stymied, he will wait like a patient spider for another opportunity.
Evil is never eliminated. It always returns.
Ask Frodo.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by Theodoric, posted 04-28-2022 9:44 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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