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Author
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Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Re: UCD evidence
wrongsmith writes: The vaccines use the RNA-DNA mechanism that was originated by the Universal Common Descent organism.
Oh, I get what you mean ... if scientists don't accept that RNA-DNA is the result of Universal Common Descent, RNA-DNA will change or perhaps cease to exist and the vaccines won't work. So in order for the vaccine's "RNA-DNA mechanism" to work, scientists must first accept UCD. That's fascinating. What if the person receiving the vaccine doesn't accept UCD? Will the vaccine still work?
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Message 1172 of 1429 (902852)
11-28-2022 2:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 1170 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 3:38 PM
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Re: UCD: Gift From God
APauling writes: For pharmaceuticals the worth was $1.4 trillion in 2021.
Oh yeah ... if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed. Your idiotic Darwinist bs is embarrassing.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 3:38 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 1173 of 1429 (902853)
11-28-2022 7:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 1171 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:19 AM
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Be Forewarned
What if the person receiving the vaccine doesn't accept UCD? Will the vaccine still work? You turn into a 6 ft jackalope with a lust for York peppermint patties. Not a pretty sight. But you're still protected.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1171 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:19 AM | | Dredge has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 1174 of 1429 (902854)
11-28-2022 7:19 AM
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Reply to: Message 1172 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:56 AM
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Re: UCD: Gift From God
if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed. Oh you can still make the drugs but they are only effective on people smart enough to take them.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1172 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:56 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9133 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 1175 of 1429 (902863)
11-28-2022 8:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 1171 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:19 AM
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Re: UCD evidence
Even if your gotcha question was legitimate it would have no effect on UCD or the TOE. Nothing you say matters.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1171 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:19 AM | | Dredge has replied |
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xongsmith
Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: 01-01-2009 Member Rating: 6.7
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Message 1176 of 1429 (902866)
11-28-2022 8:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 1171 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:19 AM
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Re: UCD evidence
migosh you don't understand english, do you? Dredgings:
Oh, I get what you mean ... if scientists don't accept that RNA-DNA is the result of Universal Common Descent, RNA-DNA will change or perhaps cease to exist and the vaccines won't work. if scientists don't accept it, it cannot change whether it exists, you stupid. and they cannot retroactively change the efficacy of a vaccine either, you dumbo. godzilla are you stoooopid.
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1171 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:19 AM | | Dredge has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9133 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Re: UCD evidence
He really thinks he has some sort of gotcha. He is that stupid.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1176 by xongsmith, posted 11-28-2022 8:31 AM | | xongsmith has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4407 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 1178 of 1429 (902889)
11-28-2022 12:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 1173 by AZPaul3
11-28-2022 7:16 AM
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Re: Be Forewarned
You turn into a 6 ft jackalope with a lust for York peppermint patties. Wow, there must be a lot of genetic diversity in the Jackalopes. Ours up here are only 2 ft and they're addicted to Reese's Peanutbutter Cups and rhubarb leaves. Ain't biology wonderful?
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1173 by AZPaul3, posted 11-28-2022 7:16 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1289 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2022 8:47 AM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 1179 of 1429 (902917)
11-28-2022 4:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 1172 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:56 AM
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Re: UCD: Gift From God
Oh yeah ... if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed. I'm old enough to remember an earlier time. Yes, there were still drugs back then, but most of them didn't work at all well. To find new drugs, they would test exotic plants to see if they had any useful pharmaceutical effects. And yes, there were vaccines back then, but there were few of them. There was no vaccine for measles, for mumps, for chicken pox, for polio. Childhood disease was a more serious problem than it is today. Many of the newer more effective drugs and vaccines that we have today are due to research into biology and biochemistry which started as a study of evolution and inheritance.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1172 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:56 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1292 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2022 10:28 PM | | nwr has replied | | | Message 1295 by Dredge, posted 12-15-2022 3:48 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes: Oh, I get what you mean ... if scientists don't accept that RNA-DNA is the result of Universal Common Descent, RNA-DNA will change or perhaps cease to exist and the vaccines won't work.
wrongsmith writes: if scientists don't accept it, it cannot change whether it exists, you stupid. and they cannot retroactively change the efficacy of a vaccine either, you dumbo.
Wait ... you're saying that, whether scientists accept the theory of UCD or not, the vaccine's "RNA-DNA mechanism" Message 1168will remain the same and will still work? If so, that means that - whether scientists accepted the theory of UCD or not - they would still have been able to develop the vaccine in the first place, doesn't it?
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 1181 of 1429 (902945)
11-29-2022 8:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 1180 by Dredge
11-29-2022 7:23 AM
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Re: UCD evidence
What we are saying, Choir Boy, is that no one cares whether you believe or not. Not the scientists planning the vaccines nor the chemists making it. They don't need your silly bullshit to know the vaccines work and why. Again, cracker muncher, you are too stupid to see reality.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1180 by Dredge, posted 11-29-2022 7:23 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1300 by Dredge, posted 12-15-2022 9:47 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9133 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 1182 of 1429 (902947)
11-29-2022 9:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 1180 by Dredge
11-29-2022 7:23 AM
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Re: UCD evidence
Irrelevant as has been everything you said on this thread. What do you think your "gotcha" proves?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1180 by Dredge, posted 11-29-2022 7:23 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
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xongsmith
Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: 01-01-2009 Member Rating: 6.7
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Message 1183 of 1429 (902990)
11-29-2022 1:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 1180 by Dredge
11-29-2022 7:23 AM
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Re: UCD evidence
Dredgings:
If so, that means that - whether scientists accepted the theory of UCD or not - they would still have been able to develop the vaccine in the first place, doesn't it? yes, once in a triple blue moon on Friday the 13th, in some unlikely year, they could stumble into a vaccine. i'm not gonna bet the farm on it, though. but they'd have to be looking for it. -- and if they didn't accept UCD, then their method of looking for it would still have to be consistent with the UCD RNA-DNA mechanism, using lab equipment and procedures that just so happened to not destroy any steps along the multi-year way. no. i'm not gonna bet the farm on that. Edited by xongsmith, : clarity
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1180 by Dredge, posted 11-29-2022 7:23 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1304 by Dredge, posted 12-15-2022 11:50 AM | | xongsmith has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10028 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 1184 of 1429 (902997)
11-29-2022 3:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 1171 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:19 AM
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Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes: Oh, I get what you mean ... if scientists don't accept that RNA-DNA is the result of Universal Common Descent, RNA-DNA will change or perhaps cease to exist and the vaccines won't work. Scientists do accept UCD, and that helps guide their research into vaccines, virology, and immunology. Your refusal to accept these facts does not make them go away.
So in order for the vaccine's "RNA-DNA mechanism" to work, scientists must first accept UCD. The development of the vaccines required a lot of animal models and understanding of innate and adaptive immunity. Innate immunity was especially important, and our current knowledge is based on phylogenetic analyses of eukaryotes. For example, our understanding of toll-like receptors (TLRs) is based on phylogenetics. These receptors were first discovered in fruit flies, and through common descent we were able to determine how they worked in humans and other mammals. TLR7, specifically, is especially important for understanding the current mRNA vaccines:
quote:
RNA sensors such as Toll-like receptor 7 (TLR7) and MDA5 are triggered by the mRNA vaccines, and TLR9 is the major double-stranded DNA sensor for the AdV vaccine. The resultant activated DCs present antigen and co-stimulatory molecules to S protein-specific naive T cells, which become activated and differentiated into effector cells to form cytotoxic T lymphocytes or helper T cells. T follicular helper (TFH) cells help S protein-specific B cells to differentiate into antibody-secreting plasma cells and promote the production of high affinity anti-S protein antibodies.
COVID-19 vaccines: modes of immune activation and future challenges | Nature Reviews Immunology
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1171 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:19 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1185 by Dredge, posted 12-01-2022 4:42 AM | | Taq has replied |
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Message 1185 of 1429 (903036)
12-01-2022 4:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 1184 by Taq
11-29-2022 3:09 PM
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Re: UCD evidence
Taq writes: The development of the vaccines required a lot of animal models and understanding of innate and adaptive immunity. Innate immunity was especially important, and our current knowledge is based on phylogenetic analyses of eukaryotes. For example, our understanding of toll-like receptors (TLRs) is based on phylogenetics. These receptors were first discovered in fruit flies, and through common descent we were able to determine how they worked in humans and other mammals.
More Darwinist delusion. Wake up, Dopey ... scientists didn't need the theory of UCD to determine how TRLs work in fruit flies, humans or any other mammal. When you were a little boy, someone told you that nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of UCD ... and you still believe it! Hey, do you still believe in Santa as well?
Not a word in that article about common descent. Golly gee, what a surprise ...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1184 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 3:09 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1186 by Taq, posted 12-01-2022 10:39 AM | | Dredge has replied |
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