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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3491
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(3)
Message 766 of 801 (896937)
08-27-2022 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 765 by AZPaul3
08-26-2022 11:45 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
If you understood evolution you would know this seeming inconsistency is consistent throughout all organisms. That's one reason there are sooo many types of beetles.
I was thinking about this as I read the post you are answering Message 762. All his miraculous crap about whale pelvis and tails is just silly to an entomologist. The absolutely astounding variety of body plans and life histories between all the orders of insects is unrivaled but any other group of organisms. We also see huge variation within orders of insects also.
We used to think beetles held the record for the highest number of species, but not it looks like it's the wasps, primarily because of the staggering numbers of parasitoid wasps. It appears that every insect species has one or more parasitoids that target that one species exclusively. Until recently most went undetected because of their microscopic size (<2mm).
There's a plasticity to almost every insect morphological feature, mothparts, eyes, head shape, front legs, middle legs hind legs antennae, front wings, hind wings, genitalia, pheromones and chemical defenses, and on and on and on.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 765 by AZPaul3, posted 08-26-2022 11:45 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 767 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 12:44 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7016
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 767 of 801 (896939)
08-27-2022 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 766 by Tanypteryx
08-27-2022 12:25 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Beetles is ok. Wasps is not ok. Pull a Dredge, ignore the wasp studies which I do not like and restore the title to the beetles. Just say no to wasps.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 766 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-27-2022 12:25 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 768 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 3:22 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 768 of 801 (896945)
08-27-2022 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 767 by AZPaul3
08-27-2022 12:44 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Nah, the "basic created worm kind" has all of them beat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 767 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 12:44 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 769 of 801 (896947)
08-27-2022 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 763 by Dredge
08-26-2022 10:29 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Not a good look admittedly, but I'm looking forward to having my editing privliges restored in the fullness of time.
You grossly abused your privileges, so what should you expect?
In the service, we receive General Military Training (GMT) on many subjects, including Rights and Responsibilities. You can be granted a privilege, but if you abuse it then it can be taken away. You have abused your privilege, so suck on it.
You want your privileges back? So demonstrate that you will not continue to abuse them.
Duh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 763 by Dredge, posted 08-26-2022 10:29 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 770 by Dredge, posted 08-27-2022 7:03 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 770 of 801 (896948)
08-27-2022 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 769 by dwise1
08-27-2022 5:54 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
dwise1 writes:
You grossly abused your privileges, so what should you expect?
But I have an IQ of only 9 and I'm also mentally ill ... you can't expect much from someone like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 5:54 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 771 by Theodoric, posted 08-27-2022 11:54 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 772 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 11:55 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 773 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 2:53 PM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7564
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 771 of 801 (896952)
08-27-2022 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 770 by Dredge
08-27-2022 7:03 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
How much rope are admin and mods going to give this guy?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 770 by Dredge, posted 08-27-2022 7:03 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16328
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 772 of 801 (896953)
08-27-2022 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 770 by Dredge
08-27-2022 7:03 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Now, why would you reply like that? That is yet another example of trolling, Dredge. What do you hope to gain by annoying these guys?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 770 by Dredge, posted 08-27-2022 7:03 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 774 by Percy, posted 08-27-2022 3:17 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 775 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 3:59 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 778 by Dredge, posted 08-28-2022 1:30 AM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 773 of 801 (896969)
08-27-2022 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 770 by Dredge
08-27-2022 7:03 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
But I have an IQ of only 9 and I'm also mentally ill ... you can't expect much from someone like that.
What we expect from you is for you to put your protective helmet back on and crawl back into your crib for your mommy (or gov't designated care-giver) to keep you safe.
You should not go out in public without adult supervision. You might wander out into traffic and get run over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 770 by Dredge, posted 08-27-2022 7:03 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 791 by Dredge, posted 08-31-2022 6:58 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21151
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 774 of 801 (896971)
08-27-2022 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 772 by Phat
08-27-2022 11:55 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Phat writes:
Now, why would you reply like that? That is yet another example of trolling, Dredge. What do you hope to gain by annoying these guys?
I think he believes he's serving the same God as you, that he sees what he's doing as pleasing this God. He's concluded that those who do not share his beliefs do not deserve to be treated as fellow human beings, that attempting to torment and antagonize them is perfectly okay.
Religion is just one of the many ways man has found to divide into bickering and often warring factions. Many believe that whatever one does to fellow humans, as long as it is done in God's name then it is okay.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 772 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 11:55 AM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 775 of 801 (896981)
08-27-2022 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 772 by Phat
08-27-2022 11:55 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
What do you hope to gain by annoying these guys?
Apparently, his goal is to thoroughly discredit the Christian god and all Christians. In that, he is succeeding, as do all Christian trolls.
The Matthew 7:20 Test:
quote:
KJV:
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I once shared a Korean BBQ lunch with a friend from Unitarian-Universalist church(UUA), Gary. He loved Korean BBQ, but it's a communal thing
Touching on another topic about whether God exists or not, in my own atheist experience who gives a flying fig about that question? Anti-atheism Christians keep harping on that question, but in my own atheist experience we do not care since that is not why we are atheists.
"Atheism" is commonly presented as "having no belief in gods", whereas it's more a matter of "being with a theism, a religion." It's not the gods themselves that we object to and reject, but rather the elaborate and oppressive religions associated with them. "God" is just part of the bath water that we toss out.
Theists keep trying to misrepresent our atheism as "rejecting God" or as "hating God and fighting against Him". Laughably wrong!
There's a local YEC activist (who in two decades of my email correspondences with him has steadfastly avoided and refused to ever discuss any young-earth claim -- even he knows how bad they are while still believing them to be true (such incredible mental gymnastics!)). He claims that he used to be an atheist, but it's all a lie. He grew up Christian and was taught that morality was only being responsible to God. Then as a teenager with "bubbling hormones" just dying to be able to sin, he found the legalistic loophole his religion dangled in front of him (like a shiny object): Your moral obligation is based solely on your responsibility to God, but atheists can sin away freely because they refuse to be responsible to God, ergo ("therefore" in geometry class proofs) if you "become an atheist" you will be responsible to no one and can sin freely. Impeccable logic!
Now for the great irony. In his own writings, he freely admits that he "became an atheist" in order to service his "bubbling hormones", yet he blames the evolution being taught in school and not his own religious training which is the real culprit -- he's just using the teaching of evolution as a scapegoat. Furthermore, in his emails with me he admitted that while he "was an atheist" he did continue to believe in God and would pray to God every single night. Like any actual atheist would do ... NOT!
And based on his own faux-atheist experience, he claims to "know what atheists think and why they are atheists" and is so laughably wrong on all counts.
But then Dredge is a creationist, so there is no possibility of ever being able to reason with him ... at any possible level (I know; I've tried).

Edited by dwise1, : last line, just to remove any ambiguity


This message is a reply to:
 Message 772 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 11:55 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 776 by Percy, posted 08-27-2022 5:16 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21151
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 776 of 801 (896993)
08-27-2022 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 775 by dwise1
08-27-2022 3:59 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
dwise1 writes:
Theists keep trying to misrepresent our atheism as "rejecting God" or as "hating God and fighting against Him". Laughably wrong!
By the same logic they also reject and hate unicorns, leprechauns and mermaids.
While I'm not an atheist, I don't accept the Christian God, and the only time I think about Him is when someone else brings him up, like in discussions here.
Or like when the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses appear on my doorstep. Since retirement I've taken to inviting them in, and for whatever reason they never stay more than 20 minutes, and now that I think of it, none of them have called on me in the last two or three years, though that could be covid.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 775 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 3:59 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 777 of 801 (897008)
08-28-2022 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 762 by Dredge
08-26-2022 10:25 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
AZPaul3's reply was to your absolutely idiotic statements about cetacean spines in respect to ancestral pelvises which have all been shown to be complete bollux.
If you have any doubts whatsoever on that point, do please refer to my Message 759 which you have so far chosen to ignore.
And in spite of that information showing your bullshit nonsense ideas to be exactly that, you have the audacity to post this complete and utter bollux:
Sludge writes:
Nor does DNA explain how natural selection and what environmental pressures acted to disconnect the tail from original pelvis and attach it to the spine (as in a modern whale or dophin).
You lying piece of evil creationist shit![/size
As far as I know, there is no evidence whatsoever of a pelvis between the spine and tail of any modern whale or dolphin.
Uh, the sacral vertebrae in cetaceans which are still fused ; from my Message 759:
quote:
  • Sacral -- these vertebrae are associated with the pelvis. In most cases, they are fused in adults as the sacrum. Such is the case with the five (5) sacral vertebrae in humans -- and interestingly one whale museum source, Comparative Anatomy - New Bedford Whaling Museum , cites cetaceans as also having five fused sacral vertebrae. When a pelvis is present, the actual pelvic bones, the ilia, attach to either side of the sacrum as an immovable joint, the sacroiliac joints (complained about by old-timers as their "saccareliac actin' up again").
  • Not only do whales still have their sacral vertebrae, but according to that source they are still fused. Why would they still have that vestigial remain (ie, the sacral vertebrae still being fused)?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 762 by Dredge, posted 08-26-2022 10:25 PM Dredge has not replied

      
    Dredge
    Member
    Posts: 1672
    From: Australia
    Joined: 09-06-2016


    Message 778 of 801 (897010)
    08-28-2022 1:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 772 by Phat
    08-27-2022 11:55 AM


    Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
    I can't tell you how disappointed I am to see you, Phat - a fellow theist - making fun of my serious mental disabilities and dysfunctions.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 772 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 11:55 AM Phat has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 779 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2022 1:39 AM Dredge has not replied
     Message 780 by AZPaul3, posted 08-28-2022 1:57 AM Dredge has replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 7564
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.7


    Message 779 of 801 (897011)
    08-28-2022 1:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 778 by Dredge
    08-28-2022 1:30 AM


    Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
    Go away troll.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 778 by Dredge, posted 08-28-2022 1:30 AM Dredge has not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 7016
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 780 of 801 (897012)
    08-28-2022 1:57 AM
    Reply to: Message 778 by Dredge
    08-28-2022 1:30 AM


    Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
    I'm telling you, Dredge, those god-meat crackers are not good for you. They screw up your brain. Stop going to those cracker fests. Find a different hobby. Like maybe indexing whale fossils at your local paleontology museum on Sunday mornings instead. That might help.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 778 by Dredge, posted 08-28-2022 1:30 AM Dredge has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 781 by Dredge, posted 08-28-2022 3:45 AM AZPaul3 has replied
     Message 783 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:41 PM AZPaul3 has replied

      
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