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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
ringo
Member
Posts: 19989
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 736 of 801 (896849)
08-24-2022 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 724 by Dredge
08-23-2022 10:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Which useful medical science do YECs reject?
Common descent. Your denial doesn't work. Creationists' rejection of common descent has prevented them from doing any useful medical research.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Dredge, posted 08-23-2022 10:44 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 740 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 8:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19989
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 737 of 801 (896852)
08-24-2022 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 728 by Dredge
08-24-2022 12:20 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
You contradict yourself. We're related but we're not related?
Dredge writes:
They probably experimented with lots of different mammals before simply choosing those that worked best ... trial and error ... nothing to do with the theory of UCD.
Show us your probability calculations.
"Trial and error" would require a lot of errors. "Here, George, try some octopus insulin. If it kills you, we'll try salmon on the next guy."

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 12:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 744 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 9:53 PM ringo has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3491
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 738 of 801 (896862)
08-24-2022 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 728 by Dredge
08-24-2022 12:20 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Sludge writes:
Even the village idiot would expect non-human mammals to more closely model human conditions than mollusks or fish.
It is interesting that even the village idiot recognizes the obvious evolutionary relatedness of humans with other vertebrates, mammals, placentals, and apes, and the more distant relatedness with all the invertebrates.
Sludge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
YOU may not need it, but WE have that knowledge and find it quite useful. And we just keep learning more and more.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 12:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 739 by Stile, posted 08-24-2022 3:38 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 745 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 10:18 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4130
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 739 of 801 (896868)
08-24-2022 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 738 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 1:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
YOU may not need it, but WE have that knowledge and find it quite useful. And we just keep learning more and more.
That's basically the main point on why this is such a silly argument to put forward.
No one NEEDS a hammer to drive in a nail.
But it certainly does make it a lot easier to USE the proper tool for the job.
UCD is the nail-gun of evolution - the best tool for the job that's ever been invented.
Spend your time ruining your pliers and screwdrivers trying to hammer nails all you want.
We'll use the nail-gun and complete 100 projects to your 1.
Not to mention there's no slow down to inventing/learning better and better tools for the way Science works either... ongoing improvement, ongoing self-correction, ongoing results in 'best progress.' Forever and ever.
Ramen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 738 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 1:44 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 746 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 10:32 PM Stile has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 740 of 801 (896873)
08-24-2022 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 736 by ringo
08-24-2022 11:51 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
ringo writes:
Common descent. Your denial doesn't work. Creationists' rejection of common descent has prevented them from doing any useful medical research.
How does denying the theory of universal common descent prevent "useful medical research"?
Your denial doesn't work.
I don't recall denying universal common descent. My position is, I neither deny UCD nor accept it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 11:51 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 741 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 9:07 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 752 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 11:41 AM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7564
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 741 of 801 (896874)
08-24-2022 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 740 by Dredge
08-24-2022 8:45 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
So you are just a troll. Got it. Thanks for the admission.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 740 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 8:45 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 742 of 801 (896875)
08-24-2022 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 734 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 11:39 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
meanwhile we have museums and libraries full of supporting evidence and you have a fictional book written by a bunch of bronze age Jewish goat herders.
What does any of that have to do with whether or not the theory of UCD has proven useful in the field of medicine?
Is strawmaning really the best you can do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 11:39 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 743 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 9:29 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3491
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 743 of 801 (896876)
08-24-2022 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 742 by Dredge
08-24-2022 9:21 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Just noting that you still have never presented an argument or supporting evidence.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 742 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 9:21 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 744 of 801 (896877)
08-24-2022 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 737 by ringo
08-24-2022 12:01 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
ringo writes:
You contradict yourself. We're related but we're not related?
No contradiction. According to taxonomy and physiology, humans are obviously more closely "related" to other mammals than they are to
non-mammals like mollusks and fish ... regardless of being "related" according to the theory of UCD.
"Trial and error" would require a lot of errors. "Here, George, try some octopus insulin. If it kills you, we'll try salmon on the next guy."
A scientist with any common sense would first experiment with insulin from mammals. ... no need for the theory UCD.
Why would anyone experiment with octopus or fish insulin if they were considered toxic to humans?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 737 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 12:01 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 753 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 11:46 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 785 by Taq, posted 08-30-2022 11:30 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 745 of 801 (896878)
08-24-2022 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 738 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 1:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
Tanypteryx writes:
YOU may not need it, but WE have that knowledge and find it quite useful.
In what way has the so-called knowledge of UCD been found to be "useful" in medicine?
It is interesting that even the village idiot recognizes the obvious evolutionary relatedness of humans with other vertebrates, mammals, placentals, and apes, and the more distant relatedness with all the invertebrates.
A human's "evolutionary relatedness" to invertebrates is based on a theory ... as opposed to human "relatedness" to other mammals according to morphology and physiology, which is based on facts.
Correction: A human's "evolutionary relatedness" to invertebrates is a theory

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 738 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 1:44 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 747 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 10:35 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 746 of 801 (896879)
08-24-2022 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 739 by Stile
08-24-2022 3:38 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Stile writes:
No one NEEDS a hammer to drive in a nail.
But it certainly does make it a lot easier to USE the proper tool for the job.
Which "job" in the field of medicine has been made "a lot easier" by the theory of UCD?
UCD is the nail-gun of evolution - the best tool for the job that's ever been invented
Evolution is defined as a change in allele frequency within a population.
So please explain how "UCD is the nail-gun of evolution".
Spend your time ruining your pliers and screwdrivers trying to hammer nails all you want.
We'll use the nail-gun and complete 100 projects to your 1.
Sure ... if by "projects" you mean useless bed-time stories from Darwinist folklore about what might have happened millions of years ago.
But if by "projects" you mean medical applications, it appears UCD has accomplished zilch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 739 by Stile, posted 08-24-2022 3:38 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 751 by Stile, posted 08-25-2022 8:17 AM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3491
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 747 of 801 (896880)
08-24-2022 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 745 by Dredge
08-24-2022 10:18 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Sludge writes:
In what way has the so-called knowledge of UCD been found to be "useful" in medicine?
You have already been give numerous examples, that you ignore.
Sludge writes:
A human's "evolutionary relatedness" to invertebrates is based on a theory ...
That is incorrect. It is based in the same biology that tells us our evolutionary relationships to the vertebrates.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 745 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 10:18 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 748 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 10:56 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 749 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 11:02 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 748 of 801 (896881)
08-24-2022 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 747 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 10:35 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
That is incorrect. It is based in the same biology that tells us our evolutionary relationships to the vertebrates.
Thank you for the correction. What I should have said is, "evolutionary relatedness" is a theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 747 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 10:35 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 754 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 11:51 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 749 of 801 (896882)
08-24-2022 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 747 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 10:35 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
You have already been give numerous examples, that you ignore.
Please b advised that no one has yet provided an example of how UCD hss proven useful in medicine.
All that has been provided thus far is lame Darwinist propaganda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 747 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 10:35 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 750 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-25-2022 12:03 AM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3491
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 750 of 801 (896883)
08-25-2022 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 749 by Dredge
08-24-2022 11:02 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Sludge writes:
Please b advised that no one has yet provided an example of how UCD hss proven useful in medicine.

All that has been provided thus far is lame Darwinist propaganda.
And there we have undisputable proof that you are just a pathetic troll, in your own words.
No example, no evidence would ever satisfy you, but luckily, you don't get to decide what data any science uses including medical science. All the discoveries we have made in biology, including the evolution and relatedness of life on this planet are part of our arsenals of tools that can be utilized by medical science.
Interestingly, something we never see is creationism, ID, or prayer being useful tools in the medical science toolkit. Faith healers are not replacing neurosurgeons.
We are all carrying on using our knowledge to learn more new things and you have no influence over the tools we choose to use.
We have tried many different ways to provide information to correct your confusion and delusions, but you remain committed to misunderstanding and misinterpreting us.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 749 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 11:02 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 786 by Dredge, posted 08-31-2022 12:26 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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